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I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

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Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#81

Post by robonerd »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #78
Barrin92 wrote: post #47

Much of the Linux desktop is balkanized and fragmentation is indeed a huge issue. People's obsession with choice is irritating given that doing more or less the same thing in 10 different ways half-right is worse than doing it once correctly. The entire distro-zoo built on top of the same distributions with different DE's on top of it is an example. The problem with Windows or Mac isn't that it looks, feels and works…

The fragmentation peeves me as well. The Linux community is like herding cats with fragile egos. One disagreement and a dev will go try and make their own thing, further diluting the Linux ecosystem. There are way too many distros that are half baked trash that make it into bad listicles returned in search results. The Linux community sabotages itself.

> The Linux community is like herding cats

Stop trying to herd people? I didn't sign up for whatever agenda you're trying to advance, so of course I'm going to spit in your face when you try to tell me what to do.

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#82

Post by Gordonjcp »

corrral wrote: post #69
Gordonjcp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the owner's refusal to allow users to move that taskbar to the bottom of the screen You're going to need to explain that one.

Guessing it's about Unity. https://askubuntu.com/questions/360748/how-do-i-move-the-tas... "There is no way to move the 'task bar' to the bottom of the screen. You are out of luck."

Oh, the thing from ten years ago that hasn't existed for five, or something?

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#83

Post by em-bee »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #71

I've been using linux as my primary OS for over 20 years now. The rough edges are almost entirely gone and linux is absolutely a fantastic OS for everything but gaming, and even there it's getting better. I'm building a gaming computer at the end of this year and I'm strongly considering just throwing linux on it instead of windows as well, because if protondb is to be believed most games run perfectly fine on linux…

even gaming. it's amazing how much progress proton/wine is making. i have several games that i didn't dare run on linux a few years ago, that now just run out of the box with wine as if they belonged.

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#84

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

robonerd wrote: post #81
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fragmentation peeves me as well. The Linux community is like herding cats with fragile egos. One disagreement and a dev will go try and make their own thing, further diluting the Linux ecosystem. There are way too many distros that are half baked trash that make it into bad listicles returned in search results. The Linux community sabotages itself.

> The Linux community is like herding cats Stop trying to herd people? I didn't sign up for whatever agenda you're trying to advance, so of course I'm going to spit in your face when you try to tell me what to do.

Exhibit A

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#85

Post by sky-kedge0749 »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #62
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #25

I hate it, which is why I don't use it. Ubuntu got the closest for me, but the owner's refusal to allow users to move that taskbar to the bottom of the screen made me give up on it altogether. And unless it's a supported distro, I don't want it. Been burned too many times by pet projects that end up being abandoned. The other thing is that in all my years of using Windows and MacOS, I have NEVER had an issue where an…

>the owner's refusal to allow users to move that taskbar to the bottom of the screen made me give up on it altogether. You ...do know there are countless desktop environments and window managers just an apt-get away right? If that's too much for you, you could have literally chosen any other flavor. My mother has been happily using xubuntu for years. If she can manage, I think you can too.

A while ago when I used Linux I found that installing some alternate desktop environment usually messed up some default even if you switched back. I don't remember exactly but it'd be like, you start on GNOME, install KDE, switch back to GNOME but now your file explorer is Dolphin.

Has that happened to you? Is that still a problem?

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#86

Post by NaN1352 »

Holy crap I never heard of the term "DaaS" before. I wish I could go back in time :(

I guess I am thankful that Linux desktops in general I both love and hate, are good enough to replace Windows if the needs come to that.

Even more so nowadays with Valve setting up Linux as a promising "pc gamer" platform with decent usability.

For good or worse the fragmentation is what Linux "fans" want. The kind of users who are never happy and want gazillions options to make something fit their every perceived special needs. The kind of users who think using a mouse is "less productive and efficient" than keyboard only… these are the most vocal users on Linux discussions it seems.

Oh well like I said I’m grateful Ubuntu is usable enough and looks half decent… actually moving back from a M1 MacMini soon… but mostly for convenience as I want to keep using my "gaming pc".. and I realized i dont actually do anything very macOS specific … plus homebrew and lack of native containers feels like a hack. I’llmiss the polish of macOS though.

While I’m at it let’s be blunt: is there really any half decent looking distro besides Ubuntu? Imho most other distros look like they were designed in 1987, and elementaryOS is such a joke. Personally I could’t see myself using anything else than Ubuntu + the fantastic "Dash to Panel" addon as a valid replacement for Win10 (the win + number shortcuts are amazing).

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#87

Post by mrj »

notriddle wrote: post #64
mrj wrote: post #30

Nonsense. There are billions of Android devices sold and customers don't seem too bothered by its fragmentation. They continue to buy Android devices en mass. So it seems fragmentation has many problems but that alone won't prevent people from using a device. I think the author believes that a critical mass of Linux desktop users will create enough interest in polish and solving problems for end users, so therefore b…

> Familiarity, inertia and monopolistic competition Also compatibility, marketing, and being installed out of the box. In its heyday, Firefox had between 25% and 50% market share, depending on country. Compared to Internet Explorer 6, it was: * More stable. * Less buggy. * More secure. * More featureful. * Usually faster than IE6, though it took a bit longer to start. * Better development tools, which indirectly lead…

Exactly. It's like saying if only Firefox had gotten rid of extensions so the UX was unified they could have taken over IE.

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#88

Post by mrj »

pupppet wrote: post #58
mrj wrote: post #30

Nonsense. There are billions of Android devices sold and customers don't seem too bothered by its fragmentation. They continue to buy Android devices en mass. So it seems fragmentation has many problems but that alone won't prevent people from using a device. I think the author believes that a critical mass of Linux desktop users will create enough interest in polish and solving problems for end users, so therefore b…

Call me a snob, but I bet no small number of Android users would have picked an iPhone if it were cheaper.

True, cost is also a motivating factor that is much more powerful than fragmentation concerns. This is probably why Windows is now essentially free or at least a hidden cost for the end user.

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#89

Post by robonerd »

akira2501 wrote: post #12
encryptluks2 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More accurate title... I love the Linux desktop, but I just want one version of it so that I don't have to deal with competition and jobs with different tools. In other words, I'll likely switch to Apple.

That, and I don't understand the needless fascination with "crushing windows." That's a goal that seems completely misaligned with all the features that make the linux desktop something I want to use; and destroying competition has never been a great long term strategy. I don't care about your market share.. I care about the quality of my own experience.

> I don't care about your market share.. I care about the quality of my own experience.

Exactly this. I've seen where chasing mainstream usability and appeal leads: ipadification. If you want an ipad go buy an ipad. I don't care about linux 'winning' because that sort of win condition would make linux into something that has no value to me. A Pyrrhic victory.

Re: I love the Linux desktop, but that doesn't mean I don't see its problems

#90

Post by simion314 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #47

Much of the Linux desktop is balkanized and fragmentation is indeed a huge issue. People's obsession with choice is irritating given that doing more or less the same thing in 10 different ways half-right is worse than doing it once correctly. The entire distro-zoo built on top of the same distributions with different DE's on top of it is an example. The problem with Windows or Mac isn't that it looks, feels and works…

It would be a depressing parallel universe where some God would force us Linux users to all run the exact same thing, no customization, have updates forced on us and have the latest GUI fad change our workflow yearly.

As Kubuntu LTS users I don't feel that I am losing anything if someone else uses Arch with GNOME. Also there are distro made for children with custom DEs, distros for blind people, distros for media etc.

The diversity is not the problem, the problem might be some secondary side effects like some developer really wants to use some bleeding edge thing but he does not have an easy way to deploy it to more stable distros.

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