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Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

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Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#421

Post by dvirsky »

hiq wrote: post #88
Dowwie wrote: post #75

Someone who builds a truly novel technology solution involving hundreds of hours of effort gets filtered out of an interview involving contrived scenarios. You may have built the next generation X, but given an array of strings and a fixed width, can you format the text such that each line has exactly maxWidth characters and is fully justified -- in the next 30 minutes? Maybe you should have cultivated that skillset…

> Someone who builds a truly novel technology solution involving hundreds of hours of effort This person should already have enough of a reputation to get a job at many companies, if their work is public enough. What do you suggest for the 99%+ other candidates?

I had a great track record that was out in the open, actually displaying vast knowledge of algorithms and data structures and exactly the stuff that's being asked in those interviews. FAANG interviewers did not care one bit about it. They actually consider it bias to look at a person's prior work.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#422

Post by Apocryphon »

Bayko wrote: post #384
brandall10 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weeks? There are stories on Blind and the LC forums of people taking upwards of a year with pretty hefty real-life constraints. And why wouldn't they, given the opportunity to essentially double comp over standard industry jobs? That's a life changing opportunity if you're in a somewhat unfortunate life situation. That it's a bit of a sacrifice is the point. If you're naturally smart enough this stuff comes quickly,…

Exactly. I honestly think no one is entitled more than software developers. Not even that chick from Mean Girls. Hell which other similarly paying field can you double compensation in like three or four months. Six months if you are slow or have a demanding life. Lawyers? Hahahaha. Doctor? Hahahaha. At least with LC there is an end goal. Those 75 questions. Or well I think 150 questions. I hate LC personally but also…

At least with those professions you have one test you pass, and maybe you retake it once every few years to renew your credentials.

With Leetcode, you have to retake the test multiple times every few years when you change jobs for each company you apply to.

Leetcode would be a lot more tolerable if it was administered more like the bar exam or like medical exams. Whatever happened to DRY?

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#423

Post by bberrry »

danaris wrote: post #293
brandall10 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every unicorny startup I've interviewed w/ that had a standard big-tech interview loop (1 LC style screener + final w/ 2-3 rounds of LC + 1 system design) was chock full of ex-big tech engineers and managers, replete with stories about wanting a faster paced / dynamic environment. So yes, that absolutely is who they are recruiting. It probably comes down to no more than believing big tech companies have the very best…

Leetcode doesn't measure "smart and determined to succeed". It measures "has enough extra time and energy to devote to practicing pointless brainteasers for weeks." In other words, whatever it's intended to do, one of its primary functions in practice is to screen out people who are bright, driven...and poor, working long hours and trying to keep themselves and/or their families going.

Being able to quickly come up with an efficient algorithm to a complex problem is not a "pointless brainteaser".

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#424

Post by synergy20 »

weatherlite wrote: post #405
s17n wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More than obedience, it probably is the aspect that they're smart and determined to succeed. Yup that's what it's about! The problem with trying to test how good you are at the job is that you simply can't do it in a 1 hour (or even a 1 day) interview. You can however assess how smart somebody is, which is definitely correlated to job performance. It's also connected to growth potential - even if it were somehow po…

> You can however assess how smart somebody is Why not just give candidates a standard IQ test then? They are probably more reliable than Leetcode...

IQ does not tell determination/hard-working-attitude at all, in fact many with high IQ ended up being nobody, as high IQ makes learning relatively easier, most got used to that and just let the 'grit' go.

leetcode is the SAT for coding, not perfect, but at least it's close to fair play.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#425

Post by cmrdporcupine »

I just tell recruiters I simply won't. Turned down continuing with an interview process with a company just last week for this reason.

I'll do take-home programming, I'll do collaborative debugging and coding in a shared IDE with something that looks like a real project, I'll do system design etc. interviews, talk to you about programming, etc. and I'll show you my GitHub etc. projects and you can judge from that, and my 20 year long resume, whether I might be a fit.

Want me to write CS-class algorithm & data structure problems on a timed clock on a whiteboard or equivalent? You've just told me everything I need to know about your engineering culture.

I worked at Google for 10 years and I hated their interview process, it needs to stop spreading to the rest of the job market. If enough of us say to no to this process, it will end.

And to hiring managers: most of you are not Google (thankfully) and don't have a bottomless pit of talent to choose from. Stop pretending otherwise. You'll get better results. If you feel you have to do it, save it for new grads and stop using it for senior talent. All you're testing for is whether people practiced leetcode or whether they're straight out of a CS program.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#426

Post by TulliusCicero »

Studies show that one of the most effective interviewing tools is a test for general mental ability: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-validity-and-utili...

Now, IQ tests are of dubious legality, at least in the US, but algorithmic coding questions basically get you an IQ test crossed with a programming skill check: win-win.

All the ire about how you don't actually invert binary trees or whatnot during your real job are rather missing the point.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#427

Post by phailhaus »

brhsagain wrote: post #148

All of these supposed "flaws" of leetcode are by design. Big companies want people who are smart enough to do the work, but obedient enough to put up with all the bullshit that comes with working at a big company. What person better matches that than someone who's able and willing to study for and pass a tech version of the SAT? Every anti-leetcode article I read is some version of "leetcode is bad because it measure…

This is ridiculous. You yourself admitted that conspiracy theory doesn't explain startups. The answer is simple: leetcode interviews are stupid easy to give. There is no "nefarious conspiracy to keep workers obedient." It is simply the path of least effort.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#428

Post by zinclozenge »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #197
skeeter2020 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think LeetCode problems require novel solutions? It's the exact opposite: they're great for new grads who just spent 4+ years cramming for exams.

Bingo. I was asked recently to find the maximum subarray of an array, in a live coding exercise. In TypeScript. So, JS, but with type annotations. The interviewer themself said "this is probably more aimed at someone who just graduated." It was for a senior data engineering role, where the odds of me implementing classic dynamic programming problems on the regular are slim to none. They made me an offer anyway, but I…

I'd hire you on the basis that you know that it's memoization and not memorization.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#429

Post by xrikcus »

willcipriano wrote: post #211
sdevonoes wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't get the job not because you "didn't worry about the algorithm" but because you didn't ask any questions about the problem; just went straightforward to the implementation. In FAANG interviews that would be a red flag.

So even if you deliver exactly what they were expecting they are upset that you didn't need to ask any questions to get there?

Yes, because getting to the right answer is not the point of the interview. Apart from anything else, getting to the right answer may mean you memorised it and are incapable of doing anything else. Always show your working and thought process. Asking questions and showing that you understand tradeoffs and that users have different requirements is a good way to do that.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#430

Post by l33t2328 »

biztos wrote: post #358
s17n wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More than obedience, it probably is the aspect that they're smart and determined to succeed. Yup that's what it's about! The problem with trying to test how good you are at the job is that you simply can't do it in a 1 hour (or even a 1 day) interview. You can however assess how smart somebody is, which is definitely correlated to job performance. It's also connected to growth potential - even if it were somehow po…

> You can however assess how smart somebody is Are you saying the Leetcode-style interview assesses how smart someone is?

Yes, being able to understand and apply algorithms and data structures requires some intelligence.

I know we try to stay away from the “we’re smarter than you” vibe here because it’s gross, but pretending leetcode style questions don’t require some degree of complex thought is absurd.

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