> Because nuclear plants are expensive, and they take a long time to build, financing their construction can also be a significant fraction of their cost, typically around 15-20% of the cost of the plant. For plants that have severe construction delays and/or have high financing costs (such as the Vogtle 3 and 4 plants in Georgia), this can be 50% of the cost or more. This is why nuclear power plants should be state-…
Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
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Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#52If you plan to build a Nuclear plant *TODAY*, there are financial requirements and regulatory uncertainties that mean you're sitting on high interest(and risky) loans/credit lines/asset pledges etc that increase over time.
Very few banks or financial institutions are remotely interested in setting up financing an endeavor that has an almost 0 chance of success to completion since the 90s.
Environmental review has become a tool of environmental extremist militants to derail and progress in energy. These organizations are SO short sighted that they have been weaponizing the judicial system against simple projects such as high voltage transmission lines for the silliest of reasons which assures America that her infrastructure will forever be stuck in the past.
The cost of operating a plant come after all this is considered. All plants running today are roughly HALF A FUCKING CENTURY old. What the US needs is easy access to cheap credit for people willing to set up Nuclear plants.
We need incentive to invest in audacious increases in energy output in exchange for meeting thresholds of performance. Right now, you can kill yourself by filling out thousands of pages of ridiculous review, hire some of the most expensive attorneys to represent you in court to be granted to privilege of even having basic clearance to START building while sitting on a fast bleeding pool of credit, it makes NO sense.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Note that the regulatory costs are only responsible for much of the increases of the 60s and 70s. They're the boogey man, but the increases of the last forty years can't be blamed on them. It's a general problem: HSR and subway stations have seen similar increases.
That’s also due to regulatory costs. Regulations now require “citizen voice” for large projects, whether infrastructure or just an apartment building. So NIMBYism is able to slow construction (which translates directly to increased costs), require additional measures or features. And NIMBY lawsuits after regulatory approval is given can further increase costs and schedule, even if the court rules in favor of the proj…
Think of it in a different scope: government contracts are also expensive because the have to be open to competition. A lot of the red tape could be reduced with no-bid contracts, but people understand the corruption risk tradeoff is generally not worth it.
In your example, it seems like the NIMBYism is the root cause, not the process by which NIMBYism is wielded.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#54> but all else being equal (ie: assuming total production cost stays constant), it’s better to have a larger fraction of your electricity costs be variable, so that if demand drops then production cost drops as well. This is how capitalism gives us scarcity when there is no reason for scarcity. Infrastructure like trains and nuclear that absolutely swamps current demand, and whose costs cannot be adjusted very much (…
What you call artificial shortage, others call "not making something no one wants and then forcing them to pay for it"...
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#55> Because nuclear plants are expensive, and they take a long time to build, financing their construction can also be a significant fraction of their cost, typically around 15-20% of the cost of the plant. For plants that have severe construction delays and/or have high financing costs (such as the Vogtle 3 and 4 plants in Georgia), this can be 50% of the cost or more. This is why nuclear power plants should be state-…
similar to things like interstate highways or internets or public schooling. I'd add "healthcare" to the list, but some countries haven't realized this yet.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should states invest it's taxpayer money into overpriced and slow technology when there are cheaper and fast improving alternatives?
There are no cheaper and fast improving alternatives to provide plentiful electricity at 9pm every single day.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding is that they shut down the reactors in port and run off the grid.
This is my understanding as well. I believe that they may even shut down at sea and run in on batteries/generators, which doubles as a way to test those systems. Refueling is quite the ordeal, so there is an incentive to minimize fuel depletion.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#58> Because nuclear plants are expensive, and they take a long time to build, financing their construction can also be a significant fraction of their cost, typically around 15-20% of the cost of the plant. For plants that have severe construction delays and/or have high financing costs (such as the Vogtle 3 and 4 plants in Georgia), this can be 50% of the cost or more. This is why nuclear power plants should be state-…
Why should states invest it's taxpayer money into overpriced and slow technology when there are cheaper and fast improving alternatives?
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#59https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-c...
To summarize, light water reactors rely on the production of uranium fuel rods, which hold uranium enriched to about 3% U-235 relative to 97% U-238. Naturally occuring uranium ores are about 0.7% U-235 and there is a large variation in the percentage of uranium in a given ore by total rock mass, with a few deposits being as much as 18% uranium ranging down to about 0.1%, which most sources describe as the economically recoverable limit. This will affect the cost of refueling a LWR (which has to be done every ~3 three years).
Fission in LWRs is due to slow thermal neutrons, which can only fission U-235 and Pu-239 (odd-numbered isotopes. Fast neutrons are a different story, see above source for that.) These slow neutron/U-235 events generate fission fragments (atomic masses in the range ~80-110 and ~130-150 with peaks at 95 and 135), gamma rays, and free neutrons. The initial energy distribution for heating the circulating fluid (water) is about 85% fission fragment kinetic energy, and about 15% gamma ray and neutron kinetic energy.
Some of the neutrons are captured by U-239, forming plutonium-239 (and other transuranics) - which is also subject to fission, and over the lifetime of the fuel, about 66% of this formed Pu-239 is itself fissioned, adding to the total energy output.
However, the actual heat produced by the reactor is also due to long-term decay of the fission fragments inside the fuel rods (about 6% of the total). This latter 6% is important because even if you halt the initial fission process, the reactor won't just go to zero, it still has to be cooled to prevent overheating and meltdown, as do the 'spent' fuel rods. It takes about ten years for used fuel rods to go from 10 kW decay heat/ton to 1 kW decay heat/ton. Storage of used fuel rods adds significantly to the operational costs of the reactor over time.
Long-term storage of used fuel is necessary almost entirely because of the transuranics, which are alpha-radiation emitters with half-lives of thousands of years. Most of the fission fragments appear to decay via faster beta/gamma processes.
Finally, there are the activation products to consider. Tritium is formed in the primary circulating water coolant loop, and is highly radioactive which is why this loop has to be isolated and its heat transferred to the secondary coolant loop which drives the steam turbines. Note here that reactors have to use a lot of water, at least as much as a coal-fired power plant, and these systems need to be highy engineered to prevent breakdowns, which would lead to meltdowns (Fukushima failure mode). The other activation products form in the reactor itself - carbon-14, cobalt-60, iron-55, nickel-63. This significantly adds to the cost of nuclear reactor decommissioning as the entire reactor body has to be treated as high-level waste.
These factors explain why nuclear reactors have to be overengineered relative to traditional fossil fuel power plants, oil refineries, etc. which regularly suffer major accidents and fires - but those accidents don't lead to 100-year+ exclusion zones around the accident sites, so it's deemed acceptable. Not to belabor the point, but wind/solar/storage also has much lower costs for these reasons. Security vis-a-vis terrorism, cyberattack, military conflict, etc. is also a major related cost.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#60> but all else being equal (ie: assuming total production cost stays constant), it’s better to have a larger fraction of your electricity costs be variable, so that if demand drops then production cost drops as well. This is how capitalism gives us scarcity when there is no reason for scarcity. Infrastructure like trains and nuclear that absolutely swamps current demand, and whose costs cannot be adjusted very much (…
Another way to interpret that sentence is “it’s better not to spend too much on construction, and it can be better to spend on fuel if it means spending less on construction.” Building things you don’t need is waste of labor and resources, regardless of the economic system you use or who paid for it. This should be accounted for somehow.
It is better to spend more on capital than operational costs if one actually wants the world to change not just ideal along.
The best cost control is in large part doing lots of cookie-cutter work, hence the focus on small modular reactors. It is better to do those, and then ramp up the "small" part over time.
Likewise, we should construct lots of rail simultaneously with ramp up to improve those supply chains too.
But at no point do you want to spend more on fuel in any global optimal sense. That is just wasteful. It's not like we are actually uncertain that we won't need way more electricity production on a societal scale.