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Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

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Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#811

Post by tptacek »

calcifer wrote: post #715
tptacek wrote: post #194

It's weird that you can bribe individual EJ's in Philadelphia like this. In Chicagoland, every polling place has a team of 4-5 judges, and they all have to sign off on the final election result, and all the procedural steps that arrive at that number; every individual vote is recorded in the pollbook. I don't even know how you'd generate fake votes in the first place, even if you bought off all 4 EJs. You can't just…

What's EJ? I wish people defined their acronyms. It doesn't appear in the linked document either.

Judge of Elections.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#812

Post by LocalPCGuy »

mistermann wrote: post #793
LocalPCGuy wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, individuals just as mistaken as those who claim fraud is rampant claim there is not fraud. People make those kinds of mistaken statements all the time. How about "most reasonable people who understand the process and have spent a little bit of time examining how it works"? I thought that was closer to the standard in discussions on HN, not "some rando on Twitter spouting off", but I guess not. It is not speculat…

I think the centre of the point of contention (and we can work outward from there) can be isolated like so: have there been zero authoritative personnel that have claimed or implied that fraud sufficient to change the outcome of an election is impossible? And while contemplating this idea, remember that we are dealing with human beings.

I don't think the number has to be zero in your hypothetical. (Yes, I'm aware I said "no one", and I'll admit that probably should have been "the vast majority ...")

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#813

Post by MomoXenosaga »

philwelch wrote: post #767
rootusrootus wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like white people are authoritative about other white people, if we ask black people for the truth they must be right. Or, you know, not. - 13% of Blacks, 10% of Hispanics, but only 5 percent of Whites lack photographic identification. - 12% of adults living in a household with less than $25,000 annual income lack photo ID, compared to just 2 percent in households with over $150,000 annual income. - 15 percent o…

Photo ID is required in the United States in order to work (Form I-9), obtain housing, drive a car, buy alcohol or tobacco, enter age-restricted venues, purchase firearms, drive a car, go through airport security, and in general, to participate in society. And one of the things I’ve listed is an enumerated constitutional right. So I don’t think it’s an unreasonable requirement for voting. Someone who doesn’t particip…

Yep only what 60% of Americans vote? I have a hard time believing any of the meth addicted homeless really care all that much about who's running for mayor.

I think almost every person interested in elections is someone with enough money to get an ID every 5 years. But hell give out a subsidy for the poor to get an ID card for free.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#814

Post by ARandomerDude »

mrkstu wrote: post #575
ARandomerDude wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The list of people actually convicted of treason in the US is very short, and a subsequent execution hasn't happened since the mid 1800s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_convicted_of_tr...

The Rosenbergs espionage didn’t count as treason?

No, they were tried for conspiracy to commit espionage (50 U.S.C. § 32). Although espionage is a morally treasonous act, treason was not the legal crime for which they were prosecuted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg#Ros...

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#815

Post by adamrezich »

ok_dad wrote: post #685
adamrezich wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There were no consequences for trying to vote twice, these people were simply turned away. can everyone agree that this is insane? it should be at least a federal crime to attempt to cast a fraudulent ballot in a federal election. surely, everyone here—pro- or anti-voter ID—should agree with this?

The system worked fine here, they were turned away, no need to get all legal about things. If they had actually voted twice, go get ‘em.

why should an attempted crime go unpunished?

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#816

Post by t-3 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #758
makomk wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Specifically, pro-Democrat media and organisations have spent the last several years arguing that measures to make fraud like this harder, such as unregistering people who aren't living in that state anymore and checking ID when voting, are themselves election rigging. There are endless headlines counting every single entry removed from the electoral roll or even just marked for extra checking as a vote suppress…

> such as unregistering people who aren't living in that state anymore and checking ID when voting, are themselves election rigging Unregistering has had some serious problems of hitting active voters in the past, though I'm not an expert there. But I can easily say that checking ID, without first making sure valid voters can easily get the needed ID, is unacceptable.

ID is required to register to vote in the first place though? It's literally a crime to not present ID when demanded by police. I'm all for removing the (negligible) fees associated, but it's not exactly a huge barrier to voting.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#817

Post by sdenton4 »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #675
rootusrootus wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody likes to get down to the details of actual fraud events, really. Neither side. Democrats because they don't believe it happens often. Republicans because when it does happen, 9 times out of 10 the perp turns out to be a Republican. This has been the amusing reality for years now. I personally think that fraud of a significant scale in a country with thousands of different voting systems is basically impossible…

> when it does happen, 9 times out of 10 the perp turns out to be a Republican. Citation, please.

Here's the biggest voter fraud case in decades, perpetrated by republicans:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/bladen-cou...

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#818

Post by dragonwriter »

t-3 wrote: post #816
Dylan16807 wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> such as unregistering people who aren't living in that state anymore and checking ID when voting, are themselves election rigging Unregistering has had some serious problems of hitting active voters in the past, though I'm not an expert there. But I can easily say that checking ID, without first making sure valid voters can easily get the needed ID, is unacceptable.

ID is required to register to vote in the first place though? It's literally a crime to not present ID when demanded by police. I'm all for removing the (negligible) fees associated, but it's not exactly a huge barrier to voting.

> It's literally a crime to not present ID when demanded by police.

No, it isn't, anywhere in the US. A bare majority (26) states have stop-and-identify laws which allow stops to determine identity based on reasonable suspicion of crime, but many don't, and those that do don't (and cannot Constitutionally) require presenting identification.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#819

Post by ModernMech »

rootusrootus wrote: post #554
xienze wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The argument is that requiring voting id without a commensurate effort to make sure everyone has voter id ends up disproportionately affecting minorities. Democrats have never negotiated in good faith over the requirement to make IDs available though whenever the debate is brought up. States like Wisconsin require voter ID and will make an ID for voting available for free, through the mail, and yet there is still o…

It's a pretty standard tribal division, much like abortion and everything else. Each side refuses reasonable compromises because they perceive that it would be a slippery slope allowing the other side to ultimately prevail.

Like I said, unfortunately Republicans have been found in court to have used similar tactics intentionally to disenfranchise minority voters. When they have full control of states they show their hand by passing voter ID laws without commensurate GOTV funding. So we know they are acting in bad faith before it even starts.

If Republicans were serious about non-racist voter ID laws they could have demonstrated that in Georgia when they overhauled election laws there. They didn’t and we know why: more “surgical precision”.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#820

Post by splistud »

hef19898 wrote: post #414
telotortium wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously you should only be able to get a mail-in ballot if you request it. But I live in California, and ballots are mailed out to all registered voters. While convenient, it's bonkers to do it at all, let alone in any state that, unlike California, has close elections.

I still fail to understand why the US has such a hard time figuring out the simolest of things: elections, healthcare, gun control... I mean almost all developed countries did figure those out ages ago. EDIT: Thinking of it, I'll add policing to the list. Made worse by the fact that even dictatorships solved it better then the US, totalitarian regimes tend to have better rules and control over law enforcement resulti…

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