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Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

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Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#281

Post by dominotw »

brhsagain wrote: post #148

All of these supposed "flaws" of leetcode are by design. Big companies want people who are smart enough to do the work, but obedient enough to put up with all the bullshit that comes with working at a big company. What person better matches that than someone who's able and willing to study for and pass a tech version of the SAT? Every anti-leetcode article I read is some version of "leetcode is bad because it measure…

Funny that we've been discussing a version of this every single week in last decade but leetcode has gotten more prevalent, not less.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#282

Post by ttyprintk »

rglullis wrote: post #40

Benefit #175 of having some kind of open source project in your company: you can open all types of different issues and user stories, and use them to discuss with candidates. You can even attach bounties to them so that candidates don't feel like they are doing free work, and it would still be cheaper than paying a recruiter that will likely just source candidates by spamming different sites.

I love this. Picking an issue from some well-organized dependency has worked for me (I wonder how I’d present this to AI/ML positions). I hadn’t thought of the positive signal of issuing a bounty.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#283

Post by weezin »

_Most_ of the people that complain about the hiring bar don't put in the effort to pass the hiring bar. That amount of effort depends on intelligence. Really smart people can quickly grasp the patterns of leetcode questions, but for someone less intelligent it requires a lot more studying therefore they are less likely to pass.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#284

Post by ttyprintk »

woopwoop wrote: post #256

Leetcode is great for avoiding the bottom left of the von Manstein matrix.

I presume your axis is hard-working in the left and laziness on the right. I don’t know if LeetCode (or any HR heuristic trying to couple algorithmic study to engineering design) is great for that. If Ferris Beuller is the top right of that matrix, does he score well for talking his way out of LeetCode without any coding at all?

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#285

Post by overrun11 »

blueflow wrote: post #186
bpicolo wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> replaced them with real engineers nice gatekeeping. Shame on them for working to get a job they want.

After seeing all the unreliable and buggy software, i think more gatekeeping in IT would probably be beneficial. You wouldn't let someone do surgery on you that hasn't been to medical school.

The rigor of an intro level algorithms course at a serious school far exceeds what is expected in a FAANG Leetcode interview.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#286

Post by Dudeman112 »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #202
sai_c wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This person should already have enough of a reputation to get a job at many companies, if their work is public enough. But then why do people with that kind of reputation still (at certain companies) have to jump through these hoops? https://www.theregister.com/2010/04/21/ken_thompson_take_our... > What do you suggest for the 99%+ other candidates? What about (instead of forcing a months long decision process upon…

True Probationary period / uncertain employment is 1. Untenable for employees - of I have a mortgage or family or plans or obligations let alone a current job, taking this kind of risk is unacceptable 2. Untenable for companies - that's way too much investment. Companies do have probation periods formally but they are exceeeeedingly rarely invoked, for above reasons.

Might I introduce you to Europe?

Works here. My org recently ditched a bad hire with it.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#287

Post by bigpeopleareold »

sdevonoes wrote: post #180
bigpeopleareold wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't do leetcodes because I am not really into programming puzzles (or parlor tricks :D ), but I roughly tried to do what you described. ~45 minutes it took, deciding in the middle to not worry about the algorithm. Guess I won't get the job ... shrugs.

You won't get the job not because you "didn't worry about the algorithm" but because you didn't ask any questions about the problem; just went straightforward to the implementation. In FAANG interviews that would be a red flag.

Well, good to know if that were ever an opportunity for me. Probably would have to invent questions because it's hard to ask yourself out of being dumb-founded on the spot for the moment.

The interview for my current job had something simpler: something like finding random permutations, then what's the algorithmic complexity of this random algorithm. (It was years ago, I forget the details of it.) I just talked through the solution. That was nicer that having to come up with questions. :)

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#288

Post by frostwarrior »

blueflow wrote: post #235
devonkim wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systemic problems being blamed on individuals is not going to help. Of course society is a shared responsibility model essentially but it means even a highly skilled and otherwise technically competent and qualified engineer in an inadequately structured system can regularly produce garbage work. Having to hire nothing but the best to achieve decent or viable output IMO moreso implies that the processes or systems ar…

As an adult its your responsibility to produce sensible quality despite social factors. You can not expect society to hold your hand.

It's more about professionalism and stricter standards of engineering and less about being "good despite bad context".

You can hire the best artisans for your pot making company and make some of the best pots. However, sooner or later you will encounter problems like disparate outcomes of quality (due to different people having different standards of style, crafting and discipline), unpredictability and reliability.

An engineer role is to standardize processes and turn things like quality into a predictable outcome. It's not just about being good and not being bad.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#289

Post by jason2323 »

benreesman wrote: post #232

If people who had to study for the LSAT, or MCAT, or countless other high-intensity selection processes realized that we sat around bitching about LeetCode interviews as the only obstacle to making more annually than some of them ever do, oy vey…

In the cases you mention, there is usually years of study (much longer than a CS degree) coupled with the fact that those exams you mention are meant to qualify a person to help save another persons life or their rights under law, not to optimize ad-reach by an additional tenth of a percent

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#290

Post by lmz »

jason2323 wrote: post #289
benreesman wrote: post #232

If people who had to study for the LSAT, or MCAT, or countless other high-intensity selection processes realized that we sat around bitching about LeetCode interviews as the only obstacle to making more annually than some of them ever do, oy vey…

In the cases you mention, there is usually years of study (much longer than a CS degree) coupled with the fact that those exams you mention are meant to qualify a person to help save another persons life or their rights under law, not to optimize ad-reach by an additional tenth of a percent

But that's the point of the last part - some programming jobs still pay more and you only need leetcode.
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