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Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

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Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#771

Post by vt85 »

hef19898 wrote: post #414
telotortium wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously you should only be able to get a mail-in ballot if you request it. But I live in California, and ballots are mailed out to all registered voters. While convenient, it's bonkers to do it at all, let alone in any state that, unlike California, has close elections.

I still fail to understand why the US has such a hard time figuring out the simolest of things: elections, healthcare, gun control... I mean almost all developed countries did figure those out ages ago. EDIT: Thinking of it, I'll add policing to the list. Made worse by the fact that even dictatorships solved it better then the US, totalitarian regimes tend to have better rules and control over law enforcement resulti…

How come the same things - healthcare, gun control, elections, police work in Switzerland, but not in US nowadays? Maybe because ~15% of population are not “angry getto”/“kill whites” people and illegal immigrants get deported ?

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#772

Post by yakak »

cultartawayyyi wrote: post #358
unethical_ban wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person you are responding to is clearly suggesting their personal belief that election crimes are so antithetical to American values that it constitutes a crime on par with treason.

Fine, but the system that they're claiming to speak in service of directly contradicts that belief in its foundational charter. The people commiting this type of fraud make similar mental leaps about the definitions of words like "treason" and "patriotism" to justify their actions. It's not a good road to follow.

So if the US Republic is thrown over like the Weimar Republic the only question for you is:

Did they not break any laws as defined by the forefathers who wrote the constitution?

I don't really understand this bizarre worshipping of the creation of the US as if it must have been done too well to question. Eternal vigilance is identifying the bugs, talking about them in public and proposing appropriate size patches. Failure to do so is being overthrown by a risk not accounted for by the forefathers, or that they assumed we weren't too stupid to handle.

My suggestion that election fraud by a sworn judge should be dealt with as seriously as treason is in no way the same as someone's secret dialog with co-conspirators to justify undermining all trust in the republic being democratic for their own goals.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#773

Post by kergonath »

otikik wrote: post #689
travisgriggs wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn’t there something poeticly sound about this? It’s kind like “the family that eats together stays together” and other platitudes like that. A nation that requires a heavy involvement in the whole process is going to value it more. In the states, we worship money and automation, so we automate it true point where very few are involved. And then we’re surprised when “win at all cost” incidents start to rise over…

It almost guarantees that the electorate won’t be consulted often, though. That’s something you can afford to do every 4 years, but not every 6 months.

And yet they do it, not every 6 months, but regularly. There are presidential elections (2 rounds every 5 years), general elections for the parliament (2 rounds every 5 years), elections for local (2 rounds every 6 years), department (2 rounds every 4 years), and regional councils (2 rounds every 6 years), and European elections (1 round every 5 years). Plus the occasional referendum. This year there will have been 4 voting days.

Sure, they don’t vote for judges and sheriffs and stuff, and it’s a system that’s more representative than participative as in, say, Switzerland. But it works.

One of the things that helps is that voting happens always on Sundays, when most people do not have to take a day off work to vote or to help counting.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#774

Post by areyousure »

wang_li wrote: post #617
LocalPCGuy wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All told those cases total less than 200 votes. No one (edit: to be clear - no reasonable folk) claims fraud doesn't happen. Just not on the scale that has been claimed at times, and not enough to tip an election with millions of votes. Could a coordinated attack swing a local race, maybe. But as seen by the links you provided, there are people watching for these kinds of fraud, and people get caught all the time, ev…

In the 2020 election one House of Representatives race was won by 6 votes. Another by about 120. In the 2000 Washington gubernatorial race the number of votes counted exceeded the number of registered voters and the margin of victory was less than the number of excess votes. And even if it is just a local school board seat or dog catcher, it’s still a violation of people’s civil rights. What’s more is local elections…

In case anyone is curious, the Washington gubernatorial election appears to be this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Washington_gubernatorial_...

The Wikipedia page, as well as the cited sources, are a fun read. The final decision by a judge in the case was that 1678 illegal votes were to be removed from the total number of votes cast. However, they were not apportioned to either candidate. The final margin of victory was 133 votes.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#775

Post by shrikant »

ChrisRR wrote: post #743
a_e_k wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calvin and Hobbes called this thirty years ago. https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1992/04/08

How do you manage to find a single comic strip out of thousands from thirty years ago?

The wording from some comics get burned into your brain, and then you can just search for the text. For e.g., this one is the first result for "calvin hobbes everyone has his price" https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=calvin+hobbes+everyone+has...

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#776

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #662
hef19898 wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The French presidential election got results within hours of closings, as does Germany in every election cycle. Without voring machines. How? Tons of ballot stations that count individually. Those preliminary results are recounted before it is official, usually without any deviations. I agree so, that if a system isn't set up that way, early results should not be important.

As someone who’s done this before, it relies on tons of manual volunteer labor. You need around 0.75-1.25% of the population counting votes + the people running the polls. The way French elections are run is insanely elegant though, it’s basically perfect from a security/transparency l POV.

The UK pays its vote counters, and other people who assist at elections (such as the poll clerks who check names off the electoral roll and issue ballot papers). Sunderland South, which takes pride in being the first constituency to return its result each year- aiming to do so within two hours of polls closing- uses bank tellers to count the votes.

Pay rates vary by locality (as elections are run by local councils)- typically it seems to be around £200 for the day.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#777

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

hef19898 wrote: post #750
ryantgtg wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In yesterday’s California election (Los Angeles County, specifically), it had me review all of my choices on the screen (after I was done), then it printed out the form so I could review the printed copy. Then (very confusingly) the final step was to insert the form back into the machine. Basically everyone was confused by this review and reinsert process, but still it seemed like a good system for ensuring there are…

You could also just replace all that with a paper ballot.

I have had arguments with disability activists about this- apparently, some interpretations of American disability rights legislation require electronic devices to be made available to allow voters whose disability prevents them using a pen to mark their ballot unassisted.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#778

Post by rayiner »

diffeomorphism wrote: post #682
rayiner wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that Germany doesn’t have voter IDs is technically true but a bit misleading. In the US, registering to vote is super easy and can be done online in most states. In Germany, the residency registration that’s also used for voting requires showing up in person within a month of moving. The German system would be much more onerous if implemented in America than one tied to driver’s licenses that virtually everyon…

Don't you also have to update your driver's license when moving? Then what is more onerous about it? > requires showing up in person within a month of moving Not during covid by the way. I moved in 2020 and could simply send in the documents by email. Then some time later I had to briefly drop by to get a stamp for my ID, but that was like 5 minutes. > registering to vote is super easy and can be done online in most…

You don’t have to update your driver’s license unless you permanently move from one state to another, and even then not really. It won’t stop working.

Sure, lots of things were relaxed during the pandemic. But you have to register in person normally, correct?

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#779

Post by rayiner »

rootusrootus wrote: post #637
rayiner wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a card carrying “brown person” I’m confused by your argument. I’ve never seen anyone checking skin color at the door at the DMV.

I have seen your posts on HN, I don't buy that you're actually confused. Overt racism at the door to the DMV is not at all how you disenfranchise a group of citizens, especially in modern times. You make sure DMVs in predominantly black neighborhoods have short hours at times most inconvenient, you make sure polling places are understaffed and overbooked, things like that. It insulates you against direct evidence but…

I notice you switched from “brown” to “black” here. Was the switch substantive? But the DMV thing sounds like a QAnon-style conspiracy theory.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#780

Post by hef19898 »

upsidesinclude wrote: post #721
cogman10 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signatures are, frankly, a bad way to determine if a ballot is valid or not. People's signatures change all the time and there's not exactly a science in determining whether or not two are the same. It's ultimately up to the counter to make that determination. Otherwise, I agree with your point. The reason ballot harvesting is much less of an issue than made out is because there's a vast paper trail with each mail in…

That is quite a statement. Especially considering signatures are the primary way ballots are certified. I don't believe 'signatures change' is reasonable or valid. By the time someone reaches adulthood and has an ID, their mark is likely to be quite distinct. Check your grandmother's signature sometime. My point being, that dismissal is not evidence or fact based, but likely aligns with your opinion. >ultimately up t…

the only country I know that uses signatures is the US, Germany definitely doesn't. And I don't have to check my grandma's signature, mine is enough which is basically a different person compared to the one I had two passport ago (give or take 10 years). Plus there are proven ways without signatures and other shenanigans.
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