Stop Interviewing with Leet Code • Hacker News Board

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#61

Post by davedx » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 9:32 AM UTC

nivenkos wrote: post #22

It's much better than the alternative and ideally only one part of the interview process. Ultimately the proof is in the pudding, I've had loads of candidates that could barely code and Leetcode-style problems are a great filter against that. Otherwise you risk just getting PM-style bullshitters as engineers, who talk persuasively about projects that other people actually implemented.

Did you read the article before commenting?

They aren't suggesting to not do programming tests, they're saying make the tests more aligned to the role and domain being hired for.

I use a pretty similar approach and find it works very well.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#62

Post by davedx » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 9:34 AM UTC

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #24

padjo wrote: post #16

Just talk to the person, ask them about projects they’ve worked on, problems they’ve solved etc. you’ll learn far more about them that way than getting them to put on a dog and pony show at a whiteboard!

Talk to the person and you will (1) hear a lot of bullshit and (2) filter out a ton of good but not really silver-tongued candidates. P. S. I hate coding interviews.

You can also ask them programming questions when you talk to them.

"What is a binary tree" will filter out most of the bullshitters.

None of this stuff is rocket science. We have a responsibility not to be lazy when interviewing people.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#63

Post by davedx » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 9:34 AM UTC

meowtimemania wrote: post #26

I think for large companies where they want to reduce the number of false positives, leetcode style questions work well.

That's an opinion with no data backing it up. I guess you didn't read the article either before commenting?

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#64

Post by scrapheap » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 9:35 AM UTC

Leet Code tests can be a great way to find good engineers - after you've told them what complex puzzle you want them to code, you can reject any that don't ask you why you need it! :)

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#65

Post by wtk » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 9:35 AM UTC

I recently failed interviews at Google and Amazon, exactly at this sort of algorithmic problems. And that's quite far from my client application daily job. I knew it's not my strong side, I would have applied before they approached me otherwise. Now I can tell everyone - I knew quicker than Google, that I'm not the right fit ;)

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#66

Post by davedx » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 9:36 AM UTC

sdevonoes wrote: post #31

oxff wrote: post #29

A task you solve with someone (as part of your team if you get hired) > take home task > leetcode interview in my opinion

Only the first one you mention (a task to be solved in real time with both the interviewer and the candidate on the same video call) is the only one that respects the candidate's time. The other ones do not. A take home assignment could mean hours or days of effort for the candidate, while it may take at most 1h or so for the interviewer to review it. Totally asymmetric.

I've done take home tasks before. One of them I had to do landed me a job at a really great company that I'm happy I didn't miss.

I agree it's maybe a little less respectful of a candidate's time, but as long as it's not too big a task I don't think it's unreasonable either.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#67

Post by deadcore » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 9:39 AM UTC

Don't get me wrong I hate LeetCode-style interviews as much as the next guy. In fact I really, really, really suck at them! Not sure if that says more about my ability then anything but c'est la vie

In the defence of LeetCode-style questions, I do think they work, and very well may I add - with the caveat you have the throughput of candidate to make it work well? Their ability to filter out 'those who can't code' in an efficient manor while sacrificing a small amount where it filters out 'those who can code' greatly out weighs the alternatives. The alternatives needing to fit into a 1 hour timebox, be objective while also favouring the positive cases (I think I got that the right way round).

My two cents would be more around the way in which they are conducted; in my experience I've found conflict with the interviewer more then the process itself - with interviewers in my past lacking.... empathy (may not be the right word) for the person on the other end of the screen/table feeling flustered, nervous or down right stupid that they're struggling to solve a simple fizz-buzz/reverse string problem, leads to a snowball effect and pilling onto that can effect the candidate in quite a spectacular way. Best interviewer I've had asked if I was alright and got me a glass of water, props to that guy!

I dunno - I've just come to terms with having to learn how to play the game, even if I find that part of the game really hard and to some parts unfair. Such is life

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#68

Post by snickerer » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 9:42 AM UTC

I interviewed hundreds of C++ developers as a freelance assessment interviewer. The most candidates I interviewed wanted to work in the automotive industry in Europe.

Many candidates (like: maybe the half) are fancy talkers without any skill in writing code. I really don't know why they are applying for dev jobs. It is easy to filter out these persons with a very simple coding test.

I agree with the article that 'leetcode' tests (find that complicated algorithm in 30 minutes while I am staring at you) are bad. But I think coding tests are good! Give the candidate just a really simple coding task with stuff they normally do every day. Create and delete object, fill arrays, iterate over arrays, and so on. 50% of the candidates will fail! The rest are OK engineers.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#69

Post by mellavora » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 9:42 AM UTC

yieldcrv wrote: post #3

> Alternatively, look at under-performing people and find what they are lacking This is great suggestion. While the “look at their github” one is a bad suggestion. Github polishing is theatre more suited for theatre majors instead of people actually working with integrity before coming to your company. Its very similar to the issue with the leetcode interviews as its geared towards people with time to optimize that i…

Agree that "look at github" is not helpful.

I have 30+ years software dev and almost nothing on github. There are valid reasons why a person who writes lots of code, including on weekends/spare time, would not be on github.

For my personal projects I prefer bitbucket. For professional work, it is proprietary and thus cannot be shared (esp not in an interview!!).

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#70

Post by teh_klev » Thu, Jun 09, 2022, 9:43 AM UTC

padjo wrote: post #36

meowtimemania wrote: post #26

I think for large companies where they want to reduce the number of false positives, leetcode style questions work well.

Yup! And they work well as a filter for candidates too. If a company leans heavily on these then you know it’s probably a dehumanising corporate hellscape.

> And they work well as a filter for candidates too

I agree. A couple of years ago I was asked by two companies to solve leet code problems even before there was a screener meet-and-greet interview. They were quickly crossed off my list.