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Welcome to the M1 Windows project

amarioguy.github.io

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Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#261

Post by gjsman-1000 »

sgjohnson wrote: post #236
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you ask the Asahi Linux team, heck no this isn't possible. Windows doesn't understand the Apple Interrupt Controller and a driver (at least in theory) should not be able to fix that without major kernel changes. However , they actually address this with the "What makes Windows on M1 hard?" area and talk about using a vGIC to do an extremely lightweight pseudo-hypervisor as a workaround. An interesting theory…

> Microsoft could send a legal letter at any time. If the author doesn't distribute any Microsoft IP, there's nothing Microsoft can do.

"If the author doesn't distribute any Microsoft IP, there's nothing Microsoft can do."

Only in theory. Microsoft could allege DMCA violations, or any number of threats. They might not have merit but they are still scary and could shut down the project regardless.

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#262

Post by [deleted] »

dragonwriter wrote: post #208
thescriptkiddie wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FSF-compatible licenses absolutely can exclude commercial usage, and software can be made simultaneously available under a separate (paid) commercial license if the authors wish. It's only the OSI that doesn't allow this.

> FSF-compatible licenses absolutely can exclude commercial usage No, they can't, use-restricted licenses are non-free, by the FSF definition. > software can be made simultaneously available under a separate (paid) commercial license if the authors wish. This is true, but the Free license cannot be use-restricted, or it ceases to be a Free license (if the copyright owner, owing no obligation to any upstream licensor,…

[deleted]

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#263

Post by shtopointo »

buffington wrote: post #142
shtopointo wrote: post #110

Parallels Desktop is able to run Windows on an M1. I work on Electron apps and I've been happy with how it works. Why not use that?

Have you actually tried running Windows using Parallels on an M1? I have, and it's hardly worth the effort. As for Electron apps - huh? Are you actually suggesting that you can just use Electron apps to accomplish what the OP has set out to accomplish?

> Have you actually tried running Windows using Parallels on an M1? I have, and it's hardly worth the effort.

Yes, I have. It works very well, what's the problem making it hardly worth the effort?

What I mean is that I develop Electron apps on an M1 Mac, and I use Parallels to spin up Windows so I can test the apps on Windows too.

Not the latter of what you suggested.

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#264

Post by massysett »

skohan wrote: post #138
jokoon wrote: post #10

Can't microsoft work on this instead? I don't get it.

I'm not sure why you would want to run Windows at all honestly. It seems like the OS you use when there's literally no other option.

I can get Windows hardware for dirt cheap. Much cheaper than any Mac hardware. So if I am using the computer as essentially a dumb terminal to connect to a service over a network, there’s no reason to buy Mac hardware. Yes the hardware is janky and the OS is bad. But I’m getting what I pay for, and here my needs are modest, so why pay more?

Besides that, some people actually like Windows, or dislike Macs, though I’m not one of those people. I prefer the Mac. I just see when the Mac is a poor buy compared to Windows.

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#265

Post by shawnz »

tediousdemise wrote: post #254
shawnz wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you license a word processor this way, would it then be a violation to use that word processor to edit your resume?

Technically, yes! A perfect example of an edge case that I knew would be difficult to find. Very clever!

To be clear I'm not just trying to be a pedant and poke holes in your legalese here. I'm trying to show that it is genuinely hard to draw a line between what kinds of profit seeking are morally acceptable and what are not. People generally deserve to seek out prosperity, and I suspect in most cases trying to differentiate between these cases will end up being a game of "people richer than me have to pay, people poorer get it for free" which is way less morally justified than the current situation with software licenses.

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#266

Post by pabs3 »

j1elo wrote: post #237
pabs3 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discriminating against commercial usage is not allowed under the Open Source Definition: https://opensource.org/osd

Hence the full circle to my original sarcastic joke. The OS definition serves a purpose of protecting users, even the bad ones, and maybe that worked when the "bad ones" where a minority with small impact. But nowadays things have changed. The "bad ones" are big fish, and have enormous impact. A growing subset of devs now start looking elsewhere, and a plethora of non-OS licenses start to pop out. People still want t…

There is the Ethical Source movement, that aims to prevent use of software by bad people. The FLOSS community doesn't even have resources enough to enforce the widespread violations of copyleft licenses, so it seems even more unlikely that Ethical Source folks will be able to enforce their licenses. There are lots of other reasons for the FLOSS approach too.

https://ethicalsource.dev/ https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2022/mar/17/copyleft-ethical-...

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#267

Post by pabs3 »

j1elo wrote: post #237
pabs3 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discriminating against commercial usage is not allowed under the Open Source Definition: https://opensource.org/osd

Hence the full circle to my original sarcastic joke. The OS definition serves a purpose of protecting users, even the bad ones, and maybe that worked when the "bad ones" where a minority with small impact. But nowadays things have changed. The "bad ones" are big fish, and have enormous impact. A growing subset of devs now start looking elsewhere, and a plethora of non-OS licenses start to pop out. People still want t…

It didn't really come across as a joke despite the /s, it seemed like an earnestly held opinion that is, TBH quite reasonable, although it isn't something I would agree with.

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#268

Post by skohan »

massysett wrote: post #264
skohan wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you would want to run Windows at all honestly. It seems like the OS you use when there's literally no other option.

I can get Windows hardware for dirt cheap. Much cheaper than any Mac hardware. So if I am using the computer as essentially a dumb terminal to connect to a service over a network, there’s no reason to buy Mac hardware. Yes the hardware is janky and the OS is bad. But I’m getting what I pay for, and here my needs are modest, so why pay more? Besides that, some people actually like Windows, or dislike Macs, though I’m…

Those aren't the only two options. There's not really any such thing as "windows hardware" - and if you really want maximize performance of low-end hardware, Linux is really the king for that use-case.

A lot of low-end hardware will not even run Windows 11, which is probably going to be more and more of a pain to deal with as time goes on.

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#269

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

oofbey wrote: post #198
technovader wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't imagine why a Windows user would want to run it on better hardware? Or that there are Windows workflows that just don't work on OSX? Or want a fanless laptop with good performance?

TBH I have a hard time understanding why people choose to run windows at all, except for playing games. If you're stuck using windows because the corporate overlords insist, then yeah that sucks. Also you can always run windows in a VM. Even on an M1.

> TBH I have a hard time understanding why people choose to run windows at all

I use Windows and Linux equally as often, and I don't see this changing. There are some areas in which Windows itself is far superior, e.g:

- HiDPI and font rendering (ClearType is the best font AA solution I've ever seen);

- gaming and 3D graphics (Direct3D is a straightforward API to program with; OpenGL is 'deprecated', and Vulkan is a mess);

- multi-GPU support with Optimus and related switching technologies;

- a catch-all OS API to program with (WinAPI goes as far as handling user folders, libraries, application configuration and data[0], whereas on Linux land it's just a mess of hopefully-defined environment variables and if not, everything is dumped into a dotfile/dotdir);

- a nice shell[1] (IMO, superior to bash and friends) that is bundled with the OS to manage said OS, with object-oriented data throughput, strong(er) typing, and access to the .NET library;

- as of Windows 11, increasingly unifying UI/UX experience with WinUI 3 (yes, it was a mess with Windows 8 and 10; Vista and 7 were the most recent OSes to drastically change the 'desktop environment', and Windows 8 was a very mild reskin of Windows 7, all things considered);

- powerful ACL-based permissions model and 'hidden file' metadata bit, instead of expecting a dot prefix to mean 'hidden';

- a kernel structure that makes writing third-party device drivers straightforward, because there is no need to compile out-of-kernel drivers with headers;

- vastly improved touchpad handling compared to Linux (yes, OS X is better still, but given that it will be increasingly difficult to 'hackintosh' after Apple's move to ARM, this is a moot point);

Furthermore:

- there are some software that are either industry-standard, or superior to the competition that only run on Windows/OS X, or even only on Windows (e.g. MS Office, Adobe suite, Visual Studio, Autodesk Maya/CAD; Active Directory);

- there is less incentive to run Linux bare-metal when WSL2 exists;

- Windows still holds a supermajority of desktop users, and it would do well for developers to use the OS that their users use, aka dog-fooding.

I have never understood this hardcore anti-Windows dogma that so many hackers seem to have.

[0]: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/shell/knownfo...

[1]: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#270

Post by massysett »

skohan wrote: post #268
massysett wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can get Windows hardware for dirt cheap. Much cheaper than any Mac hardware. So if I am using the computer as essentially a dumb terminal to connect to a service over a network, there’s no reason to buy Mac hardware. Yes the hardware is janky and the OS is bad. But I’m getting what I pay for, and here my needs are modest, so why pay more? Besides that, some people actually like Windows, or dislike Macs, though I’m…

Those aren't the only two options. There's not really any such thing as "windows hardware" - and if you really want maximize performance of low-end hardware, Linux is really the king for that use-case. A lot of low-end hardware will not even run Windows 11, which is probably going to be more and more of a pain to deal with as time goes on.

I have to run proprietary software on it. Installing it on Linux is a pain. It’s doable in Linux, but the hassle of Linux gets me absolutely nothing in return here. I’ve used Linux extensively so I know.

I don’t need to maximize the performance of the hardware. I don’t need Windows 11.

Sometimes Windows really is the best solution.

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