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Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

businessweek.com

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Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#31

Post by jamesrom »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #11
jamesrom wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has never been on top in market share... I don't think any Apple fan would point to market share as an indicator of success.

Never underestimate the power of double-think. I can't believe that Gruber (for example) would claim with a straight face "Money is how you keep score" after years of attacking Microsoft who massively won on both marketshare and profitshare on the desktop. (They've fallen slightly behind in profit the last year or so, but take any longer period and they murder Apple. By Gruber's own metric this means Apple's computer…

That's completely wrong. Yes, money is how you keep score. But no, just because Microsoft had a higher "score" (protip: microsoft won) doesn't mean that Apple's computers suck.

Gruber is not saying that Apple makes more money than X, therefore X sucks. He is saying Apple makes more many than X, therefore Apple is winning.

No one has ever claimed that Apple won the PC war.

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#32

Post by ZeroGravitas »

jamesrom wrote: post #29
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They set out to make the most money." It really worries me that there's a new breed of Apple fan that actually believes this. In reality they set out to build the best device (for affluent, white, middle-aged, American males with a taste for minimalism) and semi-accidentally became fashionable status symbols. The crowing about making the most money was just fanboy bragging because every other stat they bragged about…

So you're upset that Apple fans are claiming that Apple set out to make a lot of money instead of claiming they set out to make the best device? That sounds backwards to me.

I like a lot of things about Apple, and I've bought a lot of their products and often recommended them to friends (still do, only recently bought my parents an iPad).

I can honestly say that their profits have never been something I've been impressed by, and indeed, for most of that time they didn't have impressive profits, so if I was impressed by profits I would have bought and recommended Windows PCs instead.

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#34

Post by sjwright »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #32
jamesrom wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're upset that Apple fans are claiming that Apple set out to make a lot of money instead of claiming they set out to make the best device? That sounds backwards to me.

I like a lot of things about Apple, and I've bought a lot of their products and often recommended them to friends (still do, only recently bought my parents an iPad). I can honestly say that their profits have never been something I've been impressed by, and indeed, for most of that time they didn't have impressive profits, so if I was impressed by profits I would have bought and recommended Windows PCs instead.

> > > > They set out to make the most money

> > > they set out to build the best device

Surely it's equal parts of both: Apple try to make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) etc etc...

In the sandpit where Apple plays, you can't have one without the other. A beautiful symbiosis of business and craft.

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#35

Post by cageface »

moomin wrote: post #2

Apple never set out to make the most smartphones, it just kind of happened. They set out to make the most money. Samsung are a fair distance from achieving that.

However, if these trends continue in the longer term Apple could start to suffer from some of the same negative network effects that plagued them in the PC era. If their market share slips too far people will start perceiving them again as a niche, luxury brand too different from what their friends and family use.

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#36

Post by sharmajai »

rimantas wrote: post #16
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They set out to make the most money." It really worries me that there's a new breed of Apple fan that actually believes this. In reality they set out to build the best device (for affluent, white, middle-aged, American males with a taste for minimalism) and semi-accidentally became fashionable status symbols. The crowing about making the most money was just fanboy bragging because every other stat they bragged about…

What other stats make sense to the company? It is called "business" for a reason.

Ya business as USUAL is what apple is known for. Ya right.

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#37

Post by nextparadigms »

technoslut wrote: post #24
nextparadigms wrote: post #9

I was expecting this. Apple can't possibly match Samsung with all their smartphone price ranges, and it's only the beginning for Samsung. There are a lot more "units" to be sold in the under $150 level. That's where the biggest volume will come from. I also expect them to surpass Nokia in all phone shipments, too (they already did in smartphones). But it might take a few more quarters. Nokia will transition too slowl…

There are other factors that did give Samsung an advantage such as no new iPhone launched by Apple this quarter. It remains to be seen what the impact is of new iPhone, Sprint availability and a 3GS that is free with a contract. Apple is predicting that they will generate $40 billion during the next quarter. With a 'free' 3GS Apple is pretty much competing with Samsung and Android now at every price point.

Apple might win the next quarter, because of the launch boost of iPhone 4S, but it will be their last one. After that it's all Samsung all the way. And no, Apple isn't competing with the Android manufacturers on every price point. This is a common American fallacy, thinking that the contract price is all that matters, and that it's the real price of the phone.

But an iPhone 3GS still costs around $400, while Android manufacturers can make even $100 phones today. What this means is that the iPhone 3GS will still be sold on an expensive contract, while the "free" Android phones will be even on $10 contracts.

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#38

Post by matwood »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #19
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true but it's something both sides are guilty of. The most vocal Android proponent I know carps on about market share incessantly as a measure of it's superiority despite having spent the best part of two decades reacting to Window's dominance with the old "eat shit, a billion flies can't be wrong". The truth is that both sides have some interesting challenges ahead. Google have just bought a device maker (wh…

Your post is all very reasonable, but do you not realise that this quote ... "And pretty much all Android phone manufacturers are operating on pretty thin margins because of the competition." ... simply isn't true, and the only reason you think that is because it has become an accepted truth in the Apple echo-chamber? (Mostly by intentionally fudging between mobile phone and smartphone numbers depending on whichever…

From all reports it is true. Apple has the highest margins in the industry. People may not like Apple or it's products, but their business savvy cannot be questioned. Locking in certain manufacturing lines for years has made it near impossible for their competitors to compete and still make any money.

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#39

Post by ZeroGravitas »

sjwright wrote: post #34
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like a lot of things about Apple, and I've bought a lot of their products and often recommended them to friends (still do, only recently bought my parents an iPad). I can honestly say that their profits have never been something I've been impressed by, and indeed, for most of that time they didn't have impressive profits, so if I was impressed by profits I would have bought and recommended Windows PCs instead.

> > > > They set out to make the most money > > > they set out to build the best device Surely it's equal parts of both: Apple try to make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) make the most money (in order to) make the best products (in order to) etc etc... In the sandpit where Apple plays, you can't have one without the other. A beautiful symbiosis of…

It would be nice if that were true, but actually network effects and path dependency mean that the best products will rarely "win" in IT markets where those factors dominate (see arguments about who has the bigger app store, or developer base, or patent portfolio, or pile of money).

I hope people don't lose their sense of surprise that Apple is "winning" with nice products or start to think it's inevitable, history tells us otherwise.

Re: Samsung Overtakes Apple as World’s Biggest Smartphone Seller

#40

Post by greyish_water »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #6
moomin wrote: post #2

Apple never set out to make the most smartphones, it just kind of happened. They set out to make the most money. Samsung are a fair distance from achieving that.

"They set out to make the most money." It really worries me that there's a new breed of Apple fan that actually believes this. In reality they set out to build the best device (for affluent, white, middle-aged, American males with a taste for minimalism) and semi-accidentally became fashionable status symbols. The crowing about making the most money was just fanboy bragging because every other stat they bragged about…

I like how you cut straight to the ad hominem and kept it up the whole way through.
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