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Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

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Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#21

Post by sdrothrock »

lbriner wrote: post #13

These articles always seem to have an underlying assumption that really great people are being denied access to jobs because they can't get through these interviews but it is implying that the people who do get through these are not also great but are less hassle, easier to measure their ability and so what if they have swatted up on LeetCode to help their application? That means they are driven, that they have learn…

> I am also not sure of any good alternatives because someone will always object to any alternative which they cannot achieve for some reason.

When I was on the market, a couple of companies actually gave me a variety of options, which I appreciated. I don't want to spend hours on a take-home and I also don't want to do leetcode, but an open question/answer plus some code review and live debugging was an acceptable combination for me.

Providing the options definitely has the potential to take up developer time, but I think the tradeoffs are worthwhile for both the interviewee and the hiring team.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#22

Post by nivenkos »

It's much better than the alternative and ideally only one part of the interview process.

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding, I've had loads of candidates that could barely code and Leetcode-style problems are a great filter against that.

Otherwise you risk just getting PM-style bullshitters as engineers, who talk persuasively about projects that other people actually implemented.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#23

Post by nicoburns »

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #8
yieldcrv wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh you focused on the “polishing” and not the “there’s nothing to show” part People good at their jobs because they do their job: nothing on github People in the business of performance theatre because they dont have a job to be good at: plenty on github. It can be legit code they wrote, that was not the point at all.

I half agree with this. I don't like the idea that every developer has to have code on github. If they want to code for work and nothing more, then that's fine and shouldn't disqualify them from any jobs. We shouldn't expect people to spend years of employment building up a portfolio for the next time they're looking for a job. However, I don't see how looking at the code people write isn't informative. You can see m…

Depends on what they have on there though, my GitHub mostly has projects from ~2010 when I was a very different engineer to the one I am now (this was before my first dev job)

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#24

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

padjo wrote: post #16

Just talk to the person, ask them about projects they’ve worked on, problems they’ve solved etc. you’ll learn far more about them that way than getting them to put on a dog and pony show at a whiteboard!

Talk to the person and you will (1) hear a lot of bullshit and (2) filter out a ton of good but not really silver-tongued candidates.

P. S. I hate coding interviews.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#25

Post by charcircuit »

bil7 wrote: post #18
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #15

I don't really understand the point almost all of the thing they list as downsides of using Leet Code are actually benefits. If someone can't manage to code some simple questions during an interview I can't imagine they'd ever make real contributions.

if the "simple questions" are realistic problems they might face day to day, fair enough. But the classic example in these articles is an exercise like invert a binary tree, which most people never have nor will need to do, making it a poor test.

>which most people never have nor will need to do

That doesn't mean that someone would be unable to program it. Inverting a binary tree tests if you know how to traverse a tree. I may not traverse trees all day at work, but I can easily do a tree traversal if I needed to and I expect that to be true of most people who can actually program and not just talk the talk.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#27

Post by BlargMcLarg »

lbriner wrote: post #13

These articles always seem to have an underlying assumption that really great people are being denied access to jobs because they can't get through these interviews but it is implying that the people who do get through these are not also great but are less hassle, easier to measure their ability and so what if they have swatted up on LeetCode to help their application? That means they are driven, that they have learn…

The alternative is to push companies to pay for long interviews, be realistic with their requirements (stop asking LC for simple CRUD work), have some faith in schooling, start carrying some risks again, and use the probationary period for what it's designed.

What's happening is companies are putting the burden of the risk on candidates more and more. Because they can. If candidates would put their foot down and stop accepting this, most of these shenanigans would stop. The junior market shows what happens when people are desperate for jobs and willing to bend over for any whim corporate has that might help their hiring process (even when most of it is completely unproven).

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#28

Post by jamesdhutton »

In a previous job of mine, we would show candidates a printout of some buggy code, and ask them to find the bugs. We would leave the room and let the candidate work through it on their own. The code in question was basic algorithms and data structure stuff in C++, such as inserting into a doubly-linked list. I always thought it was a good exercise. Suits slow-thinkers and nervous people, and it's a good test of coding ability since if you can spot a bug then you can clearly read and understand the code.

Re: Stop Interviewing with Leet Code

#30

Post by cik »

Instead, I offer to share a private GitHub repository, (if not some open source) with the prospective employer. It offers them the ability to see how my code changed over time, how it ended up, and the quality and calibre I may or may not devote to projects.

It invites a conversation, in depth, about software construction, quality, and decision making from the point of view of real work. It also tells me if a company wants to simply filter. If the organization is unwilling to invest in a candidate interview, as I do to be interviewed - I in turn learn a lot, and decline to pursue accordingly.

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