581–590 of 889 posts
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Good. I never understood a rationale for not having a paper trail.
I am from Brazil, our current president been trying for years to introduce a paper trail, but the congress politicians (of all parties mind you, it is not a partisan thing) and the election judges are happy to find more and more reasons to block the effort. Meanwhile the few politicians that DID attempt to do go along with this effort... died. Maybe they "died", who knows.
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Assuming your a member of a union Before election Union boss: "we expect everyone to vote for candidate X" After election Union boss: "show me your vote receipt"
This is a weird caricature of how a union works. Unions protect workers from being fired by their employers so I’m not sure what a union “boss” could do to someone who upset them.
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Maybe this NY Times article isn't biased and is simply reporting on the data. I don't find "NY Times liberals" to be a compelling refutation of the assertion that the Republican party might be good at voter suppression. I'm not even claiming they are better at it but it is certainly possible and would explain the data.
> Maybe this NY Times article isn't biased and is simply reporting on the data. I don't find "NY Times liberals" to be a compelling refutation of the assertion that the Republican party might be good at voter suppression. I don’t think you understand my point about bias. Let me put it this way - the fact that the conservative majority of SCOTUS failed to endorse Trump’s claims about the 2020 elections - in spite of t…
This is where we disagree. There is longstanding evidence for exactly this. It stretches back literally centuries.
There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. There is clear, established evidence of ongoing, large scale, material voter suppression.
It looks like you are not an American so consider that this is a thing in living memory here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965
Also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_Unite...
It's weird that you can bribe individual EJ's in Philadelphia like this. In Chicagoland, every polling place has a team of 4-5 judges, and they all have to sign off on the final election result, and all the procedural steps that arrive at that number; every individual vote is recorded in the pollbook. I don't even know how you'd generate fake votes in the first place, even if you bought off all 4 EJs. You can't just…
So can each vote be attributed to a individual (tracked)?
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You have to weigh the good with the bad. The secret ballot is essential, as compromise of that secrecy enables vote selling and voter intimidation. One of the reasons New York had tabulating machines and kept them was to limit the ability of political machines to interfere with elections at the local level. Tammany Hall operatives and others would retaliate against voters who didn’t do what the machine wanted. (Later…
> Later those machines aged and became a liability The tabulating machines or the political machines?
I meant the physical devices. Towards the end of their tenure, there were some statistical irregularities that suggested the gears were failing to roll over correctly, resulting in undercounting.
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Compared to America, many other democracies manage to get by with far less fraud. For example, election fraud is effectively unheard of in France; the system is so robust that even in very close elections there is never any real drama about recounts or such. For a country that considers democracy to be fundamental to its identity, the US's performance is embarrasing in comparison.
>For example, election fraud is effectively unheard of in France Which doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, and the other way around, American politics is dominated by discourse about election fraud more so than actual evidence of it (this case excluded). On the contrary elections in America are extremely rarely fraudulent[1] You're actually buying into a politically motivated narrative that tries to characterize Amer…
It really doesn't. I've voted in French elections and volunteered in American polling places, and the French system visibly has much better safeguards. I am not regurgitating some invented narrative, just believing my "lying eyes".
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Most other democratic countries (1) require photo IDs for voting, and (2) don’t support postal voting at scale. Either (1) or (2) not being true makes elections way less secure.
Germany has pretty liberal mail im voting, we had a bunch electuons during Covid with obvious increases of mail in voting. And we don't need IDs. We do have automatic and central "voter registration" (as basis to get the mandatory ID among other things).
The German system would be much more onerous if implemented in America than one tied to driver’s licenses that virtually everyone in America has already.
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Keeping “wrong people” from voting is essentially half of election “security”. It’s not just coercion risk. It’s the whole chain of custody.
I meant brown people, but I expect you know that. Give the FEC the power to issue photo ID for voting. Legislate that it is only valid for that purpose and any other use is illegal. Send out census-style teams to track down every citizen and issue them a card, free of charge. Of course, there are all sorts of problems with this that are entirely self-inflicted. Someone will oppose a national ID, even if we already ha…
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Apart from everything else, if you're not trying to ensure that a candidate wins, regardless of their popularity, and are instead trying to skew the odds toward a candidate who already has a reasonable chance of winning, election fraud becomes easier and harder to detect. As others have pointed out, these "judges" were actually minor, elected election officials, close to being volunteers. They were doing this to make…
You hit the nail on the head: "they just added ballots and records for registered voters they knew weren't going to show up." Which is exactly why charities and get out the vote campaigns shouldn't be given voter roles and voter statuses.
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This is a weird caricature of how a union works. Unions protect workers from being fired by their employers so I’m not sure what a union “boss” could do to someone who upset them.
No, it’s an accurate representation of how many unions operated in the mid 20th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Hoffa