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I quit the tech industry (2015)

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Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#251

Post by throw8383833jj »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #37

We talk about externalities. A chemical company pours toxins into a river, an automaker knows its products kill X people per year. These are tangible, understandable. But we don't yet think of the effects on the workforce as social externalities. Industrial safety has made the workplace a much safer space physically, but not mentally. The reality is, a great many jobs make us sick. Depression, anxiety, heightened agg…

I agree with everything you've said. But, as long as there is an endless line of engineers ready and willing to replace those lost workers, then industry and management in general has no incentive to change their ways. that's just what happens when you have a vast oversupply of labor.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#252

Post by throw8383833jj »

towaway15463 wrote: post #65
nonrandomstring wrote: post #37

We talk about externalities. A chemical company pours toxins into a river, an automaker knows its products kill X people per year. These are tangible, understandable. But we don't yet think of the effects on the workforce as social externalities. Industrial safety has made the workplace a much safer space physically, but not mentally. The reality is, a great many jobs make us sick. Depression, anxiety, heightened agg…

It’s interesting that you don’t consider landscaping, juice bars, and wind surfing schools as beneficial to the economy. Could it be that these highly educated and intelligent people you are talking about see things differently? Perhaps after 5 years in tech they realize that none of the companies they’ve worked for are actually providing any benefit to society and are perhaps even a net negative. That realization is…

It's not the work itself. YOu can always take a break. the problem is people's workaholic attitudes: especially managers.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#253

Post by throwaway894345 »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #227
throwaway894345 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We must not equate indentured servitude, wage slavery, and pointless anxiety driven makework for "real work". I'm explicitly not doing that. My whole comment can be rephrased as: "if we can meet society's needs with less soul-crushing, we should do so, but some of the soul crushing may be inherent (needing to work to meet our own physical needs can be inherently exasperating for some)". > Please don't fall for that…

> I'm explicitly not doing that. My whole comment can be rephrased as: "if we can meet society's needs with less soul-crushing, we should do so, but some of the soul crushing may be inherent (needing to work to meet our own physical needs can be inherently exasperating for some)". We can absolutely "meet society's needs". We already do, amply, and have for many decades. The problem is that we've over-supplied needs,…

> We can absolutely "meet society's needs". We already do, amply, and have for many decades. The problem is that we've over-supplied needs, and replaced huge tracts of activity pandering to wants and whims. It is that over-provision that is at the root of so much of the soul crushing emptiness.

Yes, we have plenty of resources to feed everyone and provide people with the things that I personally value, but defining "productivity" in terms of one person's values and then organizing society to optimize for that "productivity" (in other words, a sort of planned economy) is a much worse oppression than laboring for one's own values. If that's not what you're getting at, then please state it plainly because we're several comments into this exchange and it's still unclear what solution you're imagining.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#254

Post by charlie0 »

I'm shocked at how much negativity there is towards people quitting early just because they can. I sense a lot of this comes from the idea that a well paying job is embedded so deeply in American culture as a status symbol that people who choose to leave willingly must somehow be either stupid or have something else wrong with them.

I'm very glad to work in an industry where people can trade 5-10 years of their lives and then move on to other things that deeply matter to them. My only hope is that those people realize how fortunate they are. The vast majority of people will simply not have that opportunity.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#255

Post by charlie0 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #167
robotburrito wrote: post #137

Seems like a huge # of techies I meet out here are trying to reach a million dollars in savings in a job they hate so that they can "go live in a cabin in the woods." I try to tell them that my Cousin has been doing that for 40 years, and he dropped out of high school and worked at a gas station.

One of the weirder side effects of the early retirement (FIRE) movement is that it selects for people who value freedom and time away from work and then convince them that they need to work the highest paid job they can find no matter how miserable it makes them right now. A lot of tech companies capitalize on this by offering 20% raises to recruit people and then demand 50-100% more work until they burn out. They ca…

I don't see why this is a problem. Those people not only value freedom, but are able to set a long term goal and sacrifice the present for the future.

As long as they can do the job effectively, none of that hurts you or I.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#256

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #168
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm doing that now. For free. I've written infrastructure software that has, without a doubt, saved a lot of lives, and will continue to do so, for many years to come. I've been working on a client implementation that leverages that software, for the last couple of years. It's approaching ship (but still a ways off). One of the goals of that project, is to help train a few young friends in the ins and outs of what it…

> We value individuality and selfishness. In fact, we actually deify these qualities... (especially US society) I don't think it's "US society", as much as it is urban and suburban society which has become dominant over the last few decades. Traditionally in the US, people were a lot more communal--neighbors and families would share farm equipment, help each other through busy seasons, watch each other's farm while t…

The other half of this picture is that the old farming communities have died, and the whole of the American Midwest is now a giant machine for the industrial production of food, inhabited by just a few people, who maintain the giant sprinklers and combines that stride across the depopulated landscape.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#257

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

wnolens wrote: post #246
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm trying to start small by helping my one friend who is a doctor to streamline her office tech. I think I could give her 20% of her time back performing repetitive tasks. Sounds like a worthy cause. The ten-year project that I mentioned was actually ready to go, after a couple of years. All the rest of the time, was spent, talking about it, and trying to help people use it, until it went viral, and was taken over…

Awesome. If I may ask: what was this project?

I don’t really mention it in public, but it’s no secret. If you visit the littlegreenviper.com Web site, I tell the origin story, under “Miscellany.”

If you contact me, I’m happy to share it. It’s aimed at a very specific demographic.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#258

Post by [deleted] »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #167
robotburrito wrote: post #137

Seems like a huge # of techies I meet out here are trying to reach a million dollars in savings in a job they hate so that they can "go live in a cabin in the woods." I try to tell them that my Cousin has been doing that for 40 years, and he dropped out of high school and worked at a gas station.

One of the weirder side effects of the early retirement (FIRE) movement is that it selects for people who value freedom and time away from work and then convince them that they need to work the highest paid job they can find no matter how miserable it makes them right now. A lot of tech companies capitalize on this by offering 20% raises to recruit people and then demand 50-100% more work until they burn out. They ca…

[deleted]

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#259

Post by stocknoob »

awillen wrote: post #220
pc86 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how to say this without sounding like an asshole, but why do most people who are all about FIRE talk this way? Am I the only one who doesn't look at working a cushy office job 30-35 hours a week as "a lifetime of servitude?" I'd rather give up some time for a few decade, and enjoy life during that time, and retire earlier than most but later than I could, than be miserable for a decade just to live a low…

That last part is definitely overdramatic, but I do think that you're looking at the math of work in a way that I (and presumably the poster to which you're responding) don't agree with. The thing is, your 30-35 hours at a cushy office job isn't just 30-35 hours of fungible time - it's a commitment to a lifestyle that revolves around office work. A lot of folks talk like a person who has a job has the same amount of…

Yep. Time, energy, and mental freedom isn’t fungible, and you can’t “just” give away the best 30-40 hours of your week so you can live your “real life” in the remaining 2/7 of the week.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#260

Post by pc86 »

csdvrx wrote: post #221
awillen wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That last part is definitely overdramatic, but I do think that you're looking at the math of work in a way that I (and presumably the poster to which you're responding) don't agree with. The thing is, your 30-35 hours at a cushy office job isn't just 30-35 hours of fungible time - it's a commitment to a lifestyle that revolves around office work. A lot of folks talk like a person who has a job has the same amount of…

> since you're giving up that total control of your life whether you're working 20 hours or 80. You forget the age effects: when you're 80 you will have less control on the basics (like, control over being able to run for a few hours without pain) > Then, when you've got enough money, you get total control of your life for as many years as possible. Depending on what you value, it can be a totally reasonable optimiza…

> Or even better- die in debt!

You know as I get older I've come to think the two ways to go out are with either 8+ figures in the bank (assuming you have unethically birthed a few offspring into bondage, of course), or owing as many people as much money as possible. You either have enough to leave more than a token amount to your kids (so they can escape their bondage) or you lived as good as a lifestyle as possible and got it relatively cheaply.

I'm kidding, but only mostly.

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