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Entropy Is Fatal

kerkour.com

81–90 of 119 posts

Re: Entropy Is Fatal

#81

https://www.physics.princeton.edu/ph115/LQ.pdf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question Asimov was way ahead of TFA :) I like to think that life is a thermodynamic mechanism that: - locally reduces entropy by consuming lower-entropy energy and casting out higher entropy stuff - reproduces by which definition stars are almost alive. I say "almost" because stars only manage to keep local entropy from growing ver…

Inspired by Erwin Schrödinger - "What Is Life? The Physical Aspect of the Living Cell" from 1944 ?

> Schrödinger explains that living matter evades the decay to thermodynamical equilibrium by homeostatically maintaining negative entropy in an open system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_Life%3F

Re: Entropy Is Fatal

#82

I'm not sure "Entropy" is the right word for what the author wants to talk about, but the article raises some interesting points > 1st poison: Unlimited and uncontrolled growth IMO this is by far the biggest poison, and the one our society is most prone to ignoring. Every company, government budget, population, etc is considered "successful" if it's growing, and "failing" if it's shrinking. And the growth is always m…

Growth really means productivity. That doesn't mean simply "more": it means "more with less".

Re: Entropy Is Fatal

#83

The author makes a mistake here. It's fine to think of entropy as messiness; that's the Boltzmann picture of statistical mechanics. The mistake is thinking that lowering entropy, or getting rid of the mess, is a satisfactory strategy. Think of it as a negative feedback system, like a thermostat. Keeping entropy low means continually correcting errors. This is a successful strategy only if the world always stays the s…

This is why I feel wary whenever I hear the phrase 'best practices'. Although they're generally promoted with good intentions, they're often accompanied by a utilitarian certitude that rapidly hardens into dogmatic inflexibility, followed by defensiveness or outright dishonesty in response to unforeseen consequences.

Most 'best practices' are good defaults, but the superlative rhetoric comes with the unstated assumption that any deviation is necessarily inferior, and that the best cannot be iterated upon. This drains agency from actors within a system, selecting for predictable mediocrity rather than risky innovation.

Re: Entropy Is Fatal

#84
I disagree with the author, while I think there is value in minimalism, I like to embrace messiness, and I can use the "entropy" idea to show my opposite viewpoint.

Entropy is a force of nature, it will always increase, second law of thermodynamics. And yes, it is fatal, we will all die in the end there isn't much we can do about it. But that's where the author backs out, saying that "organizational entropy" doesn't follow the laws of thermodynamics because there is a magic spell called "minimalism"... Why make a parallel with physics then?

I think that just like thermodynamic entropy, there is no solution, we will all die, period. The only thing we can do is make the best of the time we are alive.

And if we look at the author's ideal, it has zero entropy, literally absolute zero, nothing moves, which is not the most enjoyable situation...

Furthermore, the proposed solution (minimalism) involves creating a small pocket of low entropy. In thermodynamics, that would be a freezer. But while freezers can lower entropy locally, they increase entropy globally, freezers need energy to function. And the colder your freezer, the more energy it consumes and the more entropy it creates. It means that minimalism can be counterproductive: the more you try to make things perfect, the messier everything around it becomes.

So, don't try to put every atom at it correct place, you simply can't, absolute zero doesn't exist in nature, just admit that life isn't perfect, that it is sometimes better to do something useless than doing even more work trying to find if it actually is useless. And low entropy (nothing moves) is as boring as high entropy (just noise), the best is somewhere in the middle, life is in the middle.

Re: Entropy Is Fatal

#85
post #79
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is the tax code. Dividends (what a value company typically produces) are taxed at a much higher rate than long term capital gains (which a ‘growth’ company produces). Dividends usually at the same rate as income, from 10-37% at the federal level, and often the same if the state has an income tax. Long term capital gains are 0-20%, and many states don’t tax them at all even if they tax income. Ever…

Do you know what is a share repurchase or buyback? [I find it unlikely that you don't - but your comment doesn't make much sense if you do.]

A share buyback is a way to convert extra cash (or new debt) into almost a dividend. It’s gotten popular lately for exactly this tax efficiency reason.

It is not a guaranteed way to do it however, as unlike a dividend, there is no way to directly tie the repurchase of shares to x amount of actual long term market value.

It often works though, and when markers were going up, it helps.

Re: Entropy Is Fatal

#86
post #85
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know what is a share repurchase or buyback? [I find it unlikely that you don't - but your comment doesn't make much sense if you do.]

A share buyback is a way to convert extra cash (or new debt) into almost a dividend. It’s gotten popular lately for exactly this tax efficiency reason. It is not a guaranteed way to do it however, as unlike a dividend, there is no way to directly tie the repurchase of shares to x amount of actual long term market value. It often works though, and when markers were going up, it helps.

> unlike a dividend, there is no way to directly tie the repurchase of shares to x amount of actual long term market value

I don't understand what you mean. From the point of view of the company - and what you called its significant incentive to go ‘growth’ if I understood your comment - there is no difference between spending $1bn repurchasing shares or distributing dividends.

Re: Entropy Is Fatal

#87
Entropy is not fatal. Areas of low entropy appear as creation, and that creation contains it's own destruction.

Entropy is a quantity. Qualities can only change, they do not live or die. The article should have been titled "Low Entropy is Fatal", or "Larger areas Low Entropy Areas are More Quickly Fatal than Small Areas of Low Entropy". Which is also wrong. All areas of low entropy are fatal, it is just easier to see the larger low entropy areas failing than the smaller ones. And larger areas of low entropy need more energy to keep the entropy low. Which is why minimalism is easier, it just shrinks the low entropy area to one that needs less energy.

Also...

You, as a human, are a low entropy area. Your whole existence is predicated on continuing to sustain your area of low entropy. How do we do this? By enabling electrons to flow through our mitochondria and stealing their angular momentum.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33671585/

Areas of low entropy have a constant stream of electrons flowing through them. For humans the electron transport chain in our mitochondria steals the electrons angular momentum energy. Our mitochondria steal the angular momentum of electrons.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jacs.9b09262

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1407716111

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00108...

The mitochondria are quantum machines that capture the free energy from electrons. Black holes are also quantum machines. Anywhere you see an area of low entropy you see a quantum machine. Quantum machines are powered by the angular momentum of electrons to make areas of low entropy.

Electron spin makes all matter possible, everything object a quantum machine that uses the angular momentum of an electron (which happens to be the speed of light!).

https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation.aspx?paperid=...

IMHO, Black holes are black because they capture all of an electrons angular momentum. Very efficient quantum machines indeed.

Re: Entropy Is Fatal

#88

The author makes a mistake here. It's fine to think of entropy as messiness; that's the Boltzmann picture of statistical mechanics. The mistake is thinking that lowering entropy, or getting rid of the mess, is a satisfactory strategy. Think of it as a negative feedback system, like a thermostat. Keeping entropy low means continually correcting errors. This is a successful strategy only if the world always stays the s…

> It's fine to think of entropy as messiness; that's the Boltzmann picture of statistical mechanics.

But it should be added: If one leaves the field of kinetic gas theory and focuses on scenarios where cohesion becomes relevant, such as in crystallisation, an increase in entropy means an increase in order.

Re: Entropy Is Fatal

#89

I'm not sure "Entropy" is the right word for what the author wants to talk about, but the article raises some interesting points > 1st poison: Unlimited and uncontrolled growth IMO this is by far the biggest poison, and the one our society is most prone to ignoring. Every company, government budget, population, etc is considered "successful" if it's growing, and "failing" if it's shrinking. And the growth is always m…

I think if you wanted to find a way to view the negatives of business, government and other forms of potentially malignant growth in the eyes of basic physics, I'd Mass/Energy Equivalence would be a better scope.

Throughout the universe we see that bigger growth in a system, entity, body, etc means less adaptive potential, slower change potential, because latency of information increases. When latency increases too much it can be fatal to a system that 'communicates' or is synchronized in some way to remain a consistent system, entity, body, group etc. What holds all bodies together on the macro and micro seems to be information synchronization. And when particles, bodies, etc can't synchronize information in a timely manner, things degenerate from there and the system undergoes a state change. One of those degenerative factors is growth. Just as in an orchestra, if it becomes too big you lose synchronization. Other disturbances I'd argue use those same basic principles to corrupt a system; they interfere with the synchronization of information unless it can form a new changed state compatible with a revised system.

I recently talked about this in a very broad sense throughout a few blog entries but mostly it's just me being a dumdum: https://0134340.blogspot.com/2022/06/bottom-to-top-principle...

Re: Entropy Is Fatal

#90
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure "Entropy" is the right word for what the author wants to talk about, but the article raises some interesting points It's not the right word. Entropy is a "term-of-art" that has a specific meaning that differs from that in the general populace or in thermodynamics. This website can't be loaded over HTTPS:// without sufficient Entropy.

> Entropy is a "term-of-art" that has a specific meaning that differs from that in the general populace or in thermodynamics. Would you care to explain that? The term ‘entropy’ originates in statistical mechanics / thermodynamics: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

Entropy is a term of art in computer science/tech as well, which is apparently the target audience of the blog. Looking at the About page shows the blog is about programming, hacking, and entrepreneurship.

This is similar to when a programmer uses the word auto in a car dealership to mean something other than automobile - because it means something different in a different field. Even when that person first explains what he is about to refer to with the word auto, it is still the wrong word to use in that context.

Your link explains this: "In 1948, Bell Labs scientist Claude Shannon developed similar statistical concepts of measuring microscopic uncertainty and multiplicity to the problem of random losses of information in telecommunication signals. Upon John von Neumann's suggestion, Shannon named this entity of missing information in analogous manner to its use in statistical mechanics as entropy, and gave birth to the field of information theory. This description has been identified as a universal definition of the concept of entropy." [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy

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