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Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

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Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#491

Post by camgunz »

willcipriano wrote: post #280
the_snooze wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You asked "Why didn't that sort of analysis find fraud in Philadelphia in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018?" And I answered it. Is that a sufficient answer or not? To your new questions, yes, there are well-established ways to detect monkey business from machine-maniputation or ballot-stuffing. Basically, you make sure that the results line up between the paper ballots and the machine counts, and that the number of p…

That doesn't really solve for all the ways you can rig an election. For example in '2000 Mules' they propose that democratically aligned charities like homeless shelters and elder care homes would gather ballots from their vulnerable populations, fill them out for their preferred candidates, and then have mules distribute those ballots to publicly accessible ballot boxes 3 to 5 at a time. They have some interesting f…

I should start off by saying 2000 Mules is a film by Dinesh D'Souza, noted scumbag. It's also a conspiracy theory. Asking "how can you prove this conspiracy theory false" isn't productive.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#492

Post by [deleted] »

mulmen wrote: post #401
adamrezich wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should you need an ID to vote? It doesn't make sense. so that only citizens can vote in elections? > Please. It is a barrier that exists. Not everyone has $22.00. yes they do. I know one person who does not have a driver's license or state ID, because she doesn't have a birth certificate (lost it). she was almost unable to take her newborn children home because of her lack of birth certificate. she had ample ti…

> so that only citizens can vote in elections? This isn't a problem voter ID solves. It is even addressed in the wiki! > hell, at least around here, if you don't want to work yet still somehow want to vote for some reason Why should voting be predicated on employment? > it is very easy to panhandle $22 in a single day, Wait whaaaat? Why should I have to panhandle to exercise my rights? > as long as you don't spend it…

[deleted]

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#493

Post by skissane »

mulmen wrote: post #443
skissane wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cited a NY Times article on how poor Americans are increasingly voting Republican. Given the overall political lean of the NY Times, I expect they'd be very happy to promote your theory if there was any evidence for it. Yet they didn't mention it, because there doesn't appear to be any.

Maybe this NY Times article isn't biased and is simply reporting on the data. I don't find "NY Times liberals" to be a compelling refutation of the assertion that the Republican party might be good at voter suppression. I'm not even claiming they are better at it but it is certainly possible and would explain the data.

> Maybe this NY Times article isn't biased and is simply reporting on the data. I don't find "NY Times liberals" to be a compelling refutation of the assertion that the Republican party might be good at voter suppression.

I don’t think you understand my point about bias. Let me put it this way - the fact that the conservative majority of SCOTUS failed to endorse Trump’s claims about the 2020 elections - in spite of the fact that their own bias would lead them to be sympathetic to them - is good evidence that his claims suffer from a serious lack of supporting evidence. Or, similarly - while Fox News hosts such as Tucker Carlson have expressed some sympathy for the members of the QAnon movement as individuals, nobody at Fox News has publicly endorsed their outlandish factual claims - and if there was remotely any evidence for them, surely Fox News would have done so, which is good evidence there isn’t.

This is what I am talking about here - everyone is biased, but when a person whose bias would naturally lead them to support some position fails to do so, that is in itself a form of indirect evidence against the position.

And I’m sure some voter suppression happens. But, let me put it this way - no doubt some fraud occurred in the 2020 election (just like every other), but it seems unlikely it occurred on a sufficient scale to change the outcome, and there is no good evidence that it did. Similarly, no doubt voter suppression sometimes happens, but it seems unlikely it happens on a sufficient scale to change national demographic trends in voting, and there is no good evidence that it does.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#495

Post by LAC-Tech »

kortilla wrote: post #459
hef19898 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still fail to understand why the US has such a hard time figuring out the simolest of things: elections, healthcare, gun control... I mean almost all developed countries did figure those out ages ago. EDIT: Thinking of it, I'll add policing to the list. Made worse by the fact that even dictatorships solved it better then the US, totalitarian regimes tend to have better rules and control over law enforcement resulti…

Is it possible that the solutions in other countries are not optimal?

No, every other country outside the US is the best at everything. That's why every American is desperate to make a better life for themselves in the EU, Australia, New Zealand and Canada while the reverse almost never happens.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#496

Post by KptMarchewa »

kortilla wrote: post #459
hef19898 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still fail to understand why the US has such a hard time figuring out the simolest of things: elections, healthcare, gun control... I mean almost all developed countries did figure those out ages ago. EDIT: Thinking of it, I'll add policing to the list. Made worse by the fact that even dictatorships solved it better then the US, totalitarian regimes tend to have better rules and control over law enforcement resulti…

Is it possible that the solutions in other countries are not optimal?

There's no optimal in policy. We're all humans.

Hoverer, US is weirdly stuck in local maximums in a lot of places.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#497

Post by serf »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #488
dangoor wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Georgia replaced their machines with ones that have paper trails.

Good. I never understood a rationale for not having a paper trail.

it's a tasty option when done perfectly, in a perfect world, in a vacuum and the voters are perfectly spherical cows.

Counting ballots by hand sucks. Moving paper ledgers physically sucks.

Unfortunately it has yet to be demonstrated that it can be done well, let alone perfectly.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#498

Post by camgunz »

Animats wrote: post #36

This was done by adding votes. The voter counts of poll watchers should not have matched those of the election officials. Why wasn't that noticed?

It actually seems like there were no poll workers, or they were also corrupt:

> Inside the polling place and while the polls were open, Beren would advise actual in-person voters to support Myers’ candidates

Definitely cannot do this.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#499

Post by girvo »

kortilla wrote: post #459
hef19898 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still fail to understand why the US has such a hard time figuring out the simolest of things: elections, healthcare, gun control... I mean almost all developed countries did figure those out ages ago. EDIT: Thinking of it, I'll add policing to the list. Made worse by the fact that even dictatorships solved it better then the US, totalitarian regimes tend to have better rules and control over law enforcement resulti…

Is it possible that the solutions in other countries are not optimal?

It’s possible. But it’s certainly more likely that if every other developed western country agrees on how we should approach those topics, and the US disagrees, that the US is the one who’s wrong here.

But there’s no way to really know either way, can’t really do blind testing of this can we!

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#500

Post by tomp »

hef19898 wrote: post #281
nostromo wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two steps to the process: Step one, check the signature, the voter roles, and remove the envelope. Throw the ballot into the bin to be counted. Step two, count the ballot. This ballot now has no identifiable information on it at all. There's no way to verify that a person's ballot was correctly tallied. So if you wanted to ballot stuff, you could do so prior to step two. Recounts wouldn't identify fraud, you'…

And still this never happened in any other democratic country doing paper ballots. Simple reason: If there are more votes in the ballot box then registered voters (ideally this means everyone above voting and eligible to vote) you know someone tempered the ballot box. And having more than one (where I live I'm always puzzled how they find the hundreds of people to monitor the dozens of polling places since we have at…

Most other democratic countries (1) require photo IDs for voting, and (2) don’t support postal voting at scale.

Either (1) or (2) not being true makes elections way less secure.

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