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Top F1 designer says auto industry moving in wrong direction with electric cars

the-race.com

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Re: Top F1 designer says auto industry moving in wrong direction with electric cars

#11

Post by someweirdperson »

Tesla did it right. With the roadster.

I would like to buy an electric car. Small (flat/low drag), no useless electrical consumers (no power steering, always-online, TV, coffee machine, ...). As a second car, obviously, for the weeked joyride. I can reach work by bike effortlessly.

But all that is being built is all SUV, SUV, and more SUVs.

Maybe, one day. Miata electric? Will probably be full of electronic toys. Electric Boxter/Cayman? Useless fluffy interior. Also, probably bloated electronics, too. Maybe Lotus, like the original Tesla, except with more modern battery/drive train. 2026?

Re: Top F1 designer says auto industry moving in wrong direction with electric cars

#13

Post by raverbashing »

For those who want the tl;dr:

> “We now have electric SUVs – huge 4x4s with electric! Ludicrous. It just makes no sense whatsoever. It would just be nice to see cars getting a bit more efficient – whatever the propulsion unit might be, but in terms of the aero, weights, engine size.

Agree

> All these government organisations pat themselves on the back for the improved safety regulations but just like in F1 it makes the car very heavy.

Well, that's the way it is. Safety has a weight penalty. Not everything is an F1 car

Re: Top F1 designer says auto industry moving in wrong direction with electric cars

#14

Post by oliwary »

Adrian Newey is the chief technical officer for Red Bull Racing. His achievements are truly mindboggling, he has designed 10 championship winning cars!

I found his autobiography "How to Build a Car: The Autobiography of the World’s Greatest Formula 1 Designer" to be very enjoyable, describing his career in motor racing and the challenges he faced. It feels a bit similar to iWoz in that it very frankly chronicles the experience of an engineering genius. I can highly recommend it: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/35657708-how-to-build...

Re: Top F1 designer says auto industry moving in wrong direction with electric cars

#15

Post by aidenn0 »

xxs wrote: post #6
edhelas wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the end a car, electric or not, is a 1.5T complex machine that transport most of the time 80kg of human and that stays immobile 95% of the time. You can turn it the way you want, the issue is the concept itself. A bus is more logical, a bike is more logical, a train is more logical, even a commercial plane is more logical.

>a 1.5T complex machine The article talks about massive cars with lots of weight - 1500kg is on the light side of the story.

Indeed, I've only owned compact cars but never owned a car that weighted less than 1.5 short tonnes.

The base-model manual-transmission 2022 Civic comes in at 2877lbs, so is actually under 1.5 short tons.

Re: Top F1 designer says auto industry moving in wrong direction with electric cars

#16

Post by dr_orpheus »

quesera wrote: post #10
strongpigeon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels a bit like cherry picking? I mean, the heaviest EV is the Hummer EV at 9000lbs compared to the original Hummer at 8000lbs. Most other EVs are of course heavier but not garishly so (e.g. Tesla Model 3 coming at around 4000 lbs, which is about the same as a BMW M3). The point about the acceleration being stronger is fair, but I don't think this means overall EVs are much more dangerous than ICE cars.

(Deleted naïve physics of uncommon case.)

But the acceleration that you are concerned about here is the acceleration (or deceleration) of a car from it's current speed to the speed after the crash. That's the acceleration that has an impact on humans.

A more accurate equation to look at would be kinetic energy = 1/2mv^2. More energy a car has in hitting something the worse the outcome will be.

Now you can say that cars with greater acceleration may be more likely to be driving faster, but it's not a direct correlation of acceleration of a car to the force of impact of the car.

Re: Top F1 designer says auto industry moving in wrong direction with electric cars

#17

Post by tadfisher »

someweirdperson wrote: post #11

Tesla did it right. With the roadster. I would like to buy an electric car. Small (flat/low drag), no useless electrical consumers (no power steering, always-online, TV, coffee machine, ...). As a second car, obviously, for the weeked joyride. I can reach work by bike effortlessly. But all that is being built is all SUV, SUV, and more SUVs. Maybe, one day. Miata electric? Will probably be full of electronic toys. Ele…

As a Miata owner/enthusiast (first-generation), I'm worried about electrification. I just can't see how they can pull it off without adding 500+ lbs to the curb weight, at which point it's no longer a Miata but a GR86 without a roof. The current generation is remarkably close to my car's weight (2300 vs 2100 lbs), which is quite an achievement given modern safety requirements.

Re: Top F1 designer says auto industry moving in wrong direction with electric cars

#18

Post by throwaway0x7E6 »

edhelas wrote: post #5
balaji1 wrote: post #2

specific section - https://the-race.com/formula-1/newey-in-depth-aborted-ferrar... "We now have electric SUVs – huge 4x4s with electric! Ludicrous. It just makes no sense whatsoever. It would just be nice to see cars getting a bit more efficient – whatever the propulsion unit might be, but in terms of the aero, weights, engine size. All these government organisations pat themselves on the back for the improved safety…

In the end a car, electric or not, is a 1.5T complex machine that transport most of the time 80kg of human and that stays immobile 95% of the time. You can turn it the way you want, the issue is the concept itself. A bus is more logical, a bike is more logical, a train is more logical, even a commercial plane is more logical.

the concept is having freedom to go wherever you want, whenever you want, whether you're young and healthy or old and frail, whether it's day or night, rain or snow

very controversial, I know

Re: Top F1 designer says auto industry moving in wrong direction with electric cars

#19

Post by antisthenes »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #9
strongpigeon wrote: post #4

Honestly, I feel like the submission title is overly editorialized. The part about the auto industry supposedly moving in the wrong direction is barely a paragraph all the way to the end. This is mostly about Newey's career.

He also never says that electric is not the right direction. Here's the quote: > “We now have electric SUVs – huge 4x4s with electric! Ludicrous. It just makes no sense whatsoever. It would just be nice to see cars getting a bit more efficient – whatever the propulsion unit might be, but in terms of the aero, weights, engine size. All these government organisations pat themselves on the back for the improved safety r…

Some of it makes sense.

Safety features make the car heavier ---> weight increases collision force ---> need more safety features.

In a way it's a self-reinforcing loop where you end up with a 2-ton vehicle to ferry around 1 person, which is a bit ridiculous if you think about it.

Re: Top F1 designer says auto industry moving in wrong direction with electric cars

#20

Post by wing-_-nuts »

edhelas wrote: post #5
balaji1 wrote: post #2

specific section - https://the-race.com/formula-1/newey-in-depth-aborted-ferrar... "We now have electric SUVs – huge 4x4s with electric! Ludicrous. It just makes no sense whatsoever. It would just be nice to see cars getting a bit more efficient – whatever the propulsion unit might be, but in terms of the aero, weights, engine size. All these government organisations pat themselves on the back for the improved safety…

In the end a car, electric or not, is a 1.5T complex machine that transport most of the time 80kg of human and that stays immobile 95% of the time. You can turn it the way you want, the issue is the concept itself. A bus is more logical, a bike is more logical, a train is more logical, even a commercial plane is more logical.

If I lived in a perfect world with universal bike lanes and drivers that were actually mindful of cyclists and gave them space, I'd gladly do most of my errands with a cargo ebike. Sadly we do not live in that world. Cycling on public streets with real traffic is signing up for a lot of stress and a not insignificant chance of bodily harm. Until that's fixed with infrastructure changes on par with what they have in the Netherlands, I make my peace with using a 2T machine.
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