Ask HN: Co-Founder pivoting, what are my options? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Co-Founder pivoting, what are my options?

#21

Post by carlgreene » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 4:28 PM UTC

bbulkow wrote: post #12

You are not a co founder, you are an employee. hint. founders get shares, employees get options. you are now in the situation of whatever you can bargain for, you can get, whatever you can't bargain for, you don't get. Dealing with what you call a highly risk adverse person makes it hard to negotiate, because the most risk adverse action is bury the code and say goodbye (what they have proposed). It is likely you can…

Where does it say the OP has options and the co-founder has shares? I think he explicitly said his _shares_ haven't vested yet...

Re: Ask HN: Co-Founder pivoting, what are my options?

#22

Post by brudgers » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

We do not have any paying customers or a meaningful non-paying user base.

It’s reasonable for you to move on.

And it is reasonable for your cofounder too.

My co-founder has written all of the code, I have been responsible for leading growth, marketing, content creation, and have been central to product development/design/mockups etc.

If shares were vested, they would only be vested in sunk costs.

Re: Ask HN: Co-Founder pivoting, what are my options?

#23

Post by simmerup » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 4:34 PM UTC

Shindi wrote: post #10

Phlarp wrote: post #4

>My co-founder has written all of the code >he holds a majority of shares >My co-founder has decided he wants to pivot >My co-founder has said he would be fine with me pursuing the initial idea >asked my co-founder for rights to use the existing code in my new venture, he refused Are you sure you are a co-founder? It sounds like you are an employee

I kinda disagree with this. Depends what percentage of the company OP has. Growth + marketing + content are critical functions despite what the HN crowd thinks.

Getting the tech sold is one of the hardest parts. A soft skills partner with the right connections is worth their weight in gold

Re: Ask HN: Co-Founder pivoting, what are my options?

#24

Post by olalonde » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 4:35 PM UTC

Some insight as a developer: re-writing an existing app is significantly faster than developing one from scratch. What took him 6 months to code might take someone else only 1 month to re-write, especially if they have access to the original source code, data models, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Co-Founder pivoting, what are my options?

#25

Post by icedchai » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 4:35 PM UTC

Ask him to license the code for your new, related venture. Offer to pay him a percentage of revenue for that license. The risk here is the code isn't that great, so you're licensing something you're going to have to replace anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Co-Founder pivoting, what are my options?

#26

Post by cloogshicer » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 4:35 PM UTC

trapexit wrote: post #6

Your co-founder's code is mostly worthless at this point without the continuing involvement of the co-founder. Developers have their own idiosyncratic coding styles, and without a multi-member dev team providing continuity of design, I expect that a new developer would rewrite it as the product evolves. At the same time ... if you've been at this for 6 months already and you don't have any meaningful traction, you sh…

That's correct. If the co-founder is gone, the source code has lost most of its value.

I wrote about this in more detail recently: https://hiringengineersbook.com/post/autonomy/

Re: Ask HN: Co-Founder pivoting, what are my options?

#27

Post by chadash » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 4:36 PM UTC

tediousdemise wrote: post #20

Shindi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda disagree with this. Depends what percentage of the company OP has. Growth + marketing + content are critical functions despite what the HN crowd thinks.

Likewise. If their co-whatever wrote all the code, they sound like the employee. Bosses, visionaries, and founders typically don't write code, they delegate it to people who do. Being an "idea person" is not comparable to being an "implementer." Truly exceptional individuals can be both, but I'm willing to wager that this whole venture was OP's idea, thus making him the "one true founder." Diplomacy would be best for…

> Bosses, visionaries, and founders typically don't write code, they delegate it to people who do.

So would Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page and Sergey Brin not count as bosses, visionaries or founders?

Re: Ask HN: Co-Founder pivoting, what are my options?

#28

Post by swatcoder » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 4:36 PM UTC

> he holds a majority of shares

Whether that was anyone's intent or not, he founded a company and sold you an opportunity to profit from its success in exchange for the services you could contribute. That company of his is now evolving, maybe because he's risk-averse or maybe because he has good instincts.

If you can't get behind the new vision and don't think the company will succeed, you're working for nothing and should write it off as a learning experience and move on, thankful that you only bet six months on it.

You're the 4,454,313rd startup employee to experience this and if you keep working for equity like you did here, you'll probably experience it several more times.

Re: Ask HN: Co-Founder pivoting, what are my options?

#29

Post by tediousdemise » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 4:39 PM UTC

chadash wrote: post #27

tediousdemise wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise. If their co-whatever wrote all the code, they sound like the employee. Bosses, visionaries, and founders typically don't write code, they delegate it to people who do. Being an "idea person" is not comparable to being an "implementer." Truly exceptional individuals can be both, but I'm willing to wager that this whole venture was OP's idea, thus making him the "one true founder." Diplomacy would be best for…

> Bosses, visionaries, and founders typically don't write code, they delegate it to people who do. So would Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page and Sergey Brin not count as bosses, visionaries or founders?

Proof of counter examples does not invalidate that statement. I could just as easily mention non-technical founders such as Steve Jobs, Reid Hoffman (LinkedIn), Tim Westergren (Pandora), Aaron Levie (Box), or Sean Rad (Tinder).

And just a reminder for you, per https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html:

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

Edit: Response to swatcoder since I am rate-limited to 5 posts per day:

I really appreciate your response. Intuition is the perfect way to put it.

I am aware that the burden of proof lies on me, since I made the claim. I am 100% being intellectually lazy by not seeking out data to support my claim. My intuition is just a hypothesis that could very well turn out to be incorrect.

I am wagering that it is correct, just as other people are free to wager that it is incorrect. Downvotes seem to be a harsher way to express that, but your comment is much more constructive.

Re: Ask HN: Co-Founder pivoting, what are my options?

#30

Post by Shindi » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 4:39 PM UTC

Brajeshwar wrote: post #19

I'm not sure if this is the correct advice but here is how I'd do if I were in your positions. Create a working MVP using no-code tools (they are all over these days) and try to get dedicated users or better yet some paying customers. Now, start looking for a technical co-founder who shares your idea and vision. YCombinator's upcoming StartupSchool seems to have a dedicated focus on finding and matching co-founders.…

+1 you are way more technical than you realize OP. The code your cofounder wrote is basically worthless if you don't have an engineer to maintain it anyways. I recommend no/low coding it. If you provide a way to contact you I can reach out with some free advice if you want. Happy to help out a fellow founder