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I quit the tech industry (2015)

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Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#151

Post by throwaway894345 »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #37

We talk about externalities. A chemical company pours toxins into a river, an automaker knows its products kill X people per year. These are tangible, understandable. But we don't yet think of the effects on the workforce as social externalities. Industrial safety has made the workplace a much safer space physically, but not mentally. The reality is, a great many jobs make us sick. Depression, anxiety, heightened agg…

> The reality is, a great many jobs make us sick. Depression, anxiety, heightened aggression, sedentary atrophy, getting overweight because there's no time for the gym... the modern office workplace is no heath-farm. And Google throwing a few coloured bean bags around, or providing healthy food and gym equipment is only a sticking plaster if the foundational culture is toxic. What is the cost to society? I have no idea, or how to even measure it.

Are you positing that there are loads of healthier jobs or healthier ways to do office work (without foregoing the actual productivity)? Or maybe that work itself is inherently unhealthy (which I kind of believe, but at least until we have automation meeting our physical needs 'work' seems healthier for society).

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#152

Post by Goronmon »

j7ake wrote: post #48
uwagar wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

self-ish is not a bad thing.

Selfish behaviour only works because the rest of society on aggregate are still contributing to the maintenance, development, and research of a multigenerational civilisation.

Selfish behaviour only works because the rest of society on aggregate are still contributing to the maintenance, development, and research of a multigenerational civilisation.

And those people only make those contributions out of a selfish desire to keep their environment from changing and for their own self-satisfaction of "making a difference".

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#153

Post by csande17 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #151
nonrandomstring wrote: post #37

We talk about externalities. A chemical company pours toxins into a river, an automaker knows its products kill X people per year. These are tangible, understandable. But we don't yet think of the effects on the workforce as social externalities. Industrial safety has made the workplace a much safer space physically, but not mentally. The reality is, a great many jobs make us sick. Depression, anxiety, heightened agg…

> The reality is, a great many jobs make us sick. Depression, anxiety, heightened aggression, sedentary atrophy, getting overweight because there's no time for the gym... the modern office workplace is no heath-farm. And Google throwing a few coloured bean bags around, or providing healthy food and gym equipment is only a sticking plaster if the foundational culture is toxic. What is the cost to society? I have no id…

> Are you positing that there are loads of healthier jobs or healthier ways to do office work (without foregoing the actual productivity)?

Bold of you to assume office work involves "productivity".

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#154

Post by hugg »

logical_ferry wrote: post #128
hugg wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean most people (like you) seem to justify having kids in a selfish way (self-growth, experiences). As someone who doesn't want my own kids (but like kids and spend time with them), I feel no need to have my own

Quoted post unavailable.

You don't know me

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#155

Post by SenHeng »

rainboOow9 wrote: post #53
21723 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually, when the money runs out, they return with their tails between their legs, often in shittier jobs that they'd have had if they'd stuck with it. You're right about the grass being greener. The tech industry is an absolute plague, but most other industries are just as bad. In the long term, and for most of us, the only way to escape this garbage system is to blow it up.

But is the system really responsible for all of this? I mean, if we go back to a more "natural" state, with simpler jobs and with more direct impacts, are we actually happier? Is cutting woods all day long more fulfilling that a tech job? Or being a mason and putting block on top of each other for other people that you do not know about? Or is it just that in tech, we have the luxury to think about all of that, and t…

As like many others here, I started writing code in my late teens. And experienced my first bout of burn out sometime in my mid 20s. I was sick of making all these 2D, non-real things and wanted to make real world products that I could hold in my hand. So I did. Then I learnt that the pay was often shit, the work was really difficult and the physical toil it took on my body was not something I could take for long. So I went back to writing code in a comfy, climate controlled office with all the snacks I can eat. And spend my weekends instead doing amateur carpentry. That's so much more fulfilling on all levels.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#156

Post by hugg »

Goronmon wrote: post #143
hugg wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean most people (like you) seem to justify having kids in a selfish way (self-growth, experiences). As someone who doesn't want my own kids (but like kids and spend time with them), I feel no need to have my own

I mean most people (like you) seem to justify having kids in a selfish way (self-growth, experiences). What is an example of a non-selfish reason someone would have kids?

Can't really think of any. But not saying being selfish is wrong either. There is a lot of things we do that are selfish.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#157

Post by gkop »

SenHeng wrote: post #142
robotburrito wrote: post #137

Seems like a huge # of techies I meet out here are trying to reach a million dollars in savings in a job they hate so that they can "go live in a cabin in the woods." I try to tell them that my Cousin has been doing that for 40 years, and he dropped out of high school and worked at a gas station.

If you absurdly reduce it down to that point then, yes, anyone can live cheaply in a rural area. But that's not the point. Financial independence is about the ability to live a good life without having to worry about next's day food.

Agreed. Also there’s an in-between. I think parent’s point is worth reminding us of, because in our consumer-driven economy, there’s no economic incentive to teach people that reducing their consumption may be a reasonable and “happier” alternative to earning more income. (Above a certain line of course)

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#158

Post by pcthrowaway »

Goronmon wrote: post #150
pcthrowaway wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also an argument that it's unethical to intentionally bring someone into the world when there are so many problems and a fair chance that their life may involve a lot of suffering

Some arguments are worth making, some aren't. There is also an argument that people choose not to have kids because they are too lazy and self-involved to care for another person.

That's not really the same kind of argument. Of course some people are too lazy and self-involved to care for other people. Lots of those people have kids and abandon them too.

Anyway, if someone does have the capacity to care for others, and wants the experience of raising children, adoption is an option as well, and doesn't require one to create more humans

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#159

Post by germinalphrase »

noufalibrahim wrote: post #26
logical_ferry wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you realize work is work and not some romantic endeavour, then things become easier. All I read from this guy's post is a lot of bitching about how the work he has to do is meaningless and hard and it is just getting in the way of his hobbies. I once read a good line: Be thankful for all the problems out there otherwise you would be out of a job. This guy is lucky he had the money to buy his way out of this situ…

> I once read a good line: Be thankful for all the problems out there otherwise you would be out of a job. I do consulting work these days. "a problem is an opportunity is disguise" is a mantra that has, on countless occasions, proven to be true. Increased billing, newer projects and opportunities. All of them first appear as problems. Over time, my reflexive anxiety at seeing a problem has been replaced by a joyful…

Thank you for the sentiment. As I leave education to begin a career reboot (toward PM, hopefully), it’s a helpful reminder.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#160

Post by akhmatova »

robotburrito wrote: post #137

Seems like a huge # of techies I meet out here are trying to reach a million dollars in savings in a job they hate so that they can "go live in a cabin in the woods." I try to tell them that my Cousin has been doing that for 40 years, and he dropped out of high school and worked at a gas station.

It's not about living in a cabin in the woods, or "doing nothing".

It's about living on your own terms, or some semblence thereof, and not having to continually put out for people.

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