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I quit the tech industry (2015)

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Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#61

Post by throwaway0a5e »

CalRobert wrote: post #43
nonrandomstring wrote: post #37

We talk about externalities. A chemical company pours toxins into a river, an automaker knows its products kill X people per year. These are tangible, understandable. But we don't yet think of the effects on the workforce as social externalities. Industrial safety has made the workplace a much safer space physically, but not mentally. The reality is, a great many jobs make us sick. Depression, anxiety, heightened agg…

There's a great read on this at https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/workplace-killing-peop... Unfortunately we're not good at handling externalities we can't easily measure. """ She has said that the real inconvenient truth is not just that there is environmental pollution, which there certainly is, but that there is also social pollution. The work hours that companies are demanding of their employees are causing t…

Social pollution isn't a new concept. In the 1970s the, um, I'll be charitable here and say "well meaning but somewhat less than perfect", welfare efforts of the 1960s were often compared to factories that churned out some product and patted themselves on the back for great work while ignoring the havoc wreaked on the local environment. Industrial pollution was a big deal in the 1970s so it's unsurprising that people made this comparison back then. A key point of the comparison was that these messes take a long time to clean up. You screw a generation out of stable families and father figures and, well, we're still dealing with that, the same way that we're still dealing with industrial pollution of decades past.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#62

Post by nnoitra »

To become really succesful in a tech career the demands are simply too great even if you are in the top percentile in IQ.

To go to a good university you literally have to be super focused in high-school and do all sorts of extracurricular activities and basically things that look good on a college application. No one cares if you were a caretaker for your grandma.

But then once you are in university you haven't even won yet. Now you have to study hard CS classes and do side-projects and apply to internships and practice LC just to get in and even then you aren't done. You need to be super focused at your internships as well to get a full-time offer and even then you aren't done.

Got a full-time offer? Well now the expectations are a lot greater and you are in competition with other super ambitious people that don't mind working during weekends. It's just a lifestyle that doesn't leave off much time for anything else. And it never gets easier you just have to start at maximum speed and keep accelerating. The technology changes very frequently and ageism kicks in really early as well. I'm not suprised at all that people quit tech careers. Life is simply put short.

Basically the path is like this:

1) Be super good in HS to go to a good school

2) Work super hard in college to get good grades

3) Study super hard part-time doing LC and side-projects to get good internships

4) Do super well on internships to get a full time offer

5) Keep doing well to get promoted

If you have intrinsic interest in CS that will get destroyed pretty quickly because you may be put on to some super boring project. There is a vast chasm between programming for fun and programming under a deadline for a jaded boss with a limited budget who's only concern is squeezing as much productivity out of their employees.

We made programming to be fun and now companies just implicitely expect you to code for fun during your free time. If you don't you simply won't be good enough to pass the interviews.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#63

Post by anthropodie »

21723 wrote: post #50
rainboOow9 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have some tangible numbers on the long term situation of those "quitting tech" people? Like, ok, they open a wind-surfing school, but then what? Does that work, are they more fulfilled and able to work the next 10+ years in that situation without burning out? Or do they go back to tech after a while because grass is always greener, and a job is a job and there are not as much fulfilling jobs as we would like to…

Usually, when the money runs out, they return with their tails between their legs, often in shittier jobs that they'd have had if they'd stuck with it. You're right about the grass being greener. The tech industry is an absolute plague, but most other industries are just as bad. In the long term, and for most of us, the only way to escape this garbage system is to blow it up.

> Usually, when the money runs out, they return with their tails between their legs, often in shittier jobs that they'd have had if they'd stuck with it.

People are trying to figure out their lives or how they want to live. There is nothing wrong in coming back to what they had quit. Making fun of other people's life choices is very immature in my opinion.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#64

Post by goodpoint »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #37

We talk about externalities. A chemical company pours toxins into a river, an automaker knows its products kill X people per year. These are tangible, understandable. But we don't yet think of the effects on the workforce as social externalities. Industrial safety has made the workplace a much safer space physically, but not mentally. The reality is, a great many jobs make us sick. Depression, anxiety, heightened agg…

> A chemical company pours toxins into a river ... a great many jobs make us sick

[Developed] societies have been systematically failing at addressing externalities for the last hundred years.

We do have many scientific methods to measure pollution, climate change, mental health, physical health, income inequality.

The socioeconomical system is designed to prioritize economical growth [for large company owners] over everything else.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#65

Post by towaway15463 »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #37

We talk about externalities. A chemical company pours toxins into a river, an automaker knows its products kill X people per year. These are tangible, understandable. But we don't yet think of the effects on the workforce as social externalities. Industrial safety has made the workplace a much safer space physically, but not mentally. The reality is, a great many jobs make us sick. Depression, anxiety, heightened agg…

It’s interesting that you don’t consider landscaping, juice bars, and wind surfing schools as beneficial to the economy. Could it be that these highly educated and intelligent people you are talking about see things differently? Perhaps after 5 years in tech they realize that none of the companies they’ve worked for are actually providing any benefit to society and are perhaps even a net negative. That realization is sure to produce instant burnout as the work you’re putting in is now meaningless or even harmful. At that point it becomes a rational choice to start a small business that provides some immediate benefit to people no matter how trivial.

I don’t think there’s a damned thing you could change in the work environment to fix that, it’s the work itself that is the problem.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#66

Post by jseban »

CalRobert wrote: post #43
nonrandomstring wrote: post #37

We talk about externalities. A chemical company pours toxins into a river, an automaker knows its products kill X people per year. These are tangible, understandable. But we don't yet think of the effects on the workforce as social externalities. Industrial safety has made the workplace a much safer space physically, but not mentally. The reality is, a great many jobs make us sick. Depression, anxiety, heightened agg…

There's a great read on this at https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/workplace-killing-peop... Unfortunately we're not good at handling externalities we can't easily measure. """ She has said that the real inconvenient truth is not just that there is environmental pollution, which there certainly is, but that there is also social pollution. The work hours that companies are demanding of their employees are causing t…

I agree about the criticism against long working hours, but it's unfortunate I think to use the nuclear family as an example of another superior example here, to shove people further into another old fashioned failing arbitrary power structure comes a bit short as a vision of a better alternative.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#68

Post by logical_ferry »

viciousplant wrote: post #59
logical_ferry wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you realize work is work and not some romantic endeavour, then things become easier. All I read from this guy's post is a lot of bitching about how the work he has to do is meaningless and hard and it is just getting in the way of his hobbies. I once read a good line: Be thankful for all the problems out there otherwise you would be out of a job. This guy is lucky he had the money to buy his way out of this situ…

people wear different shoes, there is simply no single truth. What's the difference between your gratitude for problems / inspiring thankfulness and this guy's "bitching", when you think your reality is 'the' right one? I wish you all good luck in your rest life stranger.

My truth is that this guy is bitching. That's it. No point in being nice to everyone about everything.

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#69

Post by hugg »

foxes wrote: post #58
bitwize wrote: post #8

Quoted post unavailable.

>A viable option if you have a zoophile polyamorous commune you can rely on to support you while you fiddle around Does a bit of furry art really give you such mental anguish that you have to spew some junk on hn? > Please don't pick the most provocative thing in an article or post to complain about in the thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead.

You must've missed the controversy a few years ago then. There's more to it than that

Re: I quit the tech industry (2015)

#70

Post by barrysteve »

jseban wrote: post #66
CalRobert wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a great read on this at https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/workplace-killing-peop... Unfortunately we're not good at handling externalities we can't easily measure. """ She has said that the real inconvenient truth is not just that there is environmental pollution, which there certainly is, but that there is also social pollution. The work hours that companies are demanding of their employees are causing t…

I agree about the criticism against long working hours, but it's unfortunate I think to use the nuclear family as an example of another superior example here, to shove people further into another old fashioned failing arbitrary power structure comes a bit short as a vision of a better alternative.

What's arbitrary about a family? It's changed in size over the history of homo sapiens, but it has always existed and is pretty obviously a biological necessity and unavoidable natural law for us.

The arguments against it are entirely abstract and ungrounded.

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