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Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

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Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#111

Malicious compliance. I don't know the game, but even before reading this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31662776 I couldn't help supposing that some people at the company think, fuck them for this stupid law, let's punish these countries. Then I started wondering how to prevent malicious compliance. In my opinion it makes sense to steer dangerous products causing addictive behavior like drugs as in op…

While I agree with the idea that we need to address corporate malicious compliance and other such behavior in very a very swift and stinging fashion I don't think that this is an example of malicious compliance.

Being presented with a rule and declining to do the thing that would require you to follow the rule is the opposite of malicious compliance.

Malicious compliance is when you do the thing,and follow the rule but for the purpose of inflicting unanticipated damage on the entity that is compelling you to follow the rule.

Imagine a situation where a parent tells their child that they must spend 60 minutes cleaning their room or they won't get ice cream. A child who says 'Yeah, no, I don't want ice cream that bad" isn't being maliciously compliant, while a child who says 'Yeah sure thing mom, 60 minutes of cleaning" while they spend that time doing cleaning their room as slowly as possible is malicious compliance.

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#112

Malicious compliance. I don't know the game, but even before reading this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31662776 I couldn't help supposing that some people at the company think, fuck them for this stupid law, let's punish these countries. Then I started wondering how to prevent malicious compliance. In my opinion it makes sense to steer dangerous products causing addictive behavior like drugs as in op…

The comparison with nicotine is apt. With that in mind some simple ideas come to mind.

- Hard age restriction for all games with money gambling elements

- Mandatory product labelling

- Restrictions on marketing material, disallow glorification of gambling (not sure I think this is needed, but it's done for cigarettes and alcohol)

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#113
post #89
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And with the Path of Exile inventory space purchase, the game is effectively a free trial with an optional purchase when you get sufficiently far into the game for inventory space and management to matter.

the "free trial" is still a great deal though. you get around 10 hours of gameplay per class if you're new (I'm aware the actual way to play the campaign takes only 5-6 hours) also, there's a cap on how much you can spend on inventory tabs. and even then you don't "win", you still have to grind and be smart about what you do

The problem with Path of Exile's campaign is that it is dated, frustrating and unfun.

It pushes away new players with difficult instead of convincing them to play.

Maybe the pshchologists hired by the company that makes the game made a psychological profile of whales - and this allows good conversion. However they also wfite thwt they dont use data for decisions (just vibes) so it is not clear.

They seem to be lucky with no real competition apart from maybe Diablo3.

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#114
This is beating a dead horse, but pay-to-win "games" are disgustingly user hostile, and deserve nobodies money. Please, be principled and keep your money. Blizzard was a respectable company around the time StarCraft 1 came out, but it started downhill with WoW and only accelerated with the Activision merger. Support smaller studios that are daring enough to still focus on making things purely fun as opposed to continuously exploiting your psychology for money.

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#115
post #89
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And with the Path of Exile inventory space purchase, the game is effectively a free trial with an optional purchase when you get sufficiently far into the game for inventory space and management to matter.

the "free trial" is still a great deal though. you get around 10 hours of gameplay per class if you're new (I'm aware the actual way to play the campaign takes only 5-6 hours) also, there's a cap on how much you can spend on inventory tabs. and even then you don't "win", you still have to grind and be smart about what you do

To you it is a good deal where you save some dollars but at expense of the poor people with addiction disorders who get ruined by this. This isn't a good deal for society as a whole which is why such practices ought to be illegal.

I think free to play is fine when they employ less predatory practices, like for example league of legends. Some spent a lot of money in that game, so it works as a business strategy, but it wasn't designed to trigger sick people into a spiral where they spend more and more money. You buy a thing, now you have the thing, you don't pay money to pass artificial barriers or hoping to get the thing you want in a lottery. Paying money to pass a barrier just to get to another barrier you need to pay money to pass is also predatory in my opinion, not just the random lootboxes.

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#116

Malicious compliance. I don't know the game, but even before reading this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31662776 I couldn't help supposing that some people at the company think, fuck them for this stupid law, let's punish these countries. Then I started wondering how to prevent malicious compliance. In my opinion it makes sense to steer dangerous products causing addictive behavior like drugs as in op…

let's punish these countries.

I don't think not having access to Diablo Immortal is meaningful 'punishment' for a couple of small but, you know, sovereign states. I doubt anyone at Activision thinks that.

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#117
It's so sad to see a company throw away its IPs like this. Diablo 1 and 2 are works of art, and they will be remembered as such.

I mean D1 & D2 are not even comparable to Immortal. It might feel like the same franchise, but Immortal is basically like going to Las Vegas and playing a Diablo slot machine. D1 & D2 were self-consistent worlds, where the player is rewarded for killing enemies, and the rewards scale with difficulty. This is rendered completely meaningless the second you can buy items with money. Yes, this was still a problem back then, but the solution should have been removal of the store and trading, instead of making the store and market in-house.

Not just Blizzard, but also a large part of the game industry, have sneaked in a different product... from selling an experience, to selling tokens and items in their store.

I wouldn't care that much if they had created a new franchise, and named it something different (honestly this includes D3). However, it's the blatant disregard for games as an art form, transforming them into software services with stores. They will still make money, but it's not because they made a video game, but rather a fancy slot machine.

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Then hopefully some companies will shift back to the model of making games and selling them. This whole FTP model has horribly misaligned incentives.

To be clear, it's not the free-to-play model itself which is illegal here. There are plenty of F2P games which are fine in these countries. It's specifically gambling-style loot boxes where you pay to have a small chance of winning very valuable items which is banned. F2P games which are clear about exactly what you're getting for your money in each transaction are fine, and there are plenty of F2P games which do thi…

There are games with loot-boxes that I believe have implemented it fairly so it is difficult to generalize this for a law. I am thinking of games like Star Trek Online. It has loot boxes but overall a very fair monetization in my opinion and one of the best models I have ever seen for a free to play game. Don't know if that changed since I played that ages ago but it still is very alive as far as I know. You were able to buy loot-boxes with ingame currency too via currency conversion and there was a market where players could trade ingame vs bought currency. It was or is a really smart system.

In general I hate f2p games and any kind of micro-transaction with a loathing passion but this is an example of an extremely fair system in my opinion. I will certainly not play Diablo Immortal. In my opinion they killed the IP and I don't believe Blizzard will ever get to its former success even when completely discounting WoW.

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#119
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't designed to prod you into spending much before level 40 precisely because they want you to form the daily habit, the investment first . Whales are harder to create now that awareness of gacha is more mainstream. Make no mistake, you'll feel the pull to swipe soon, do report back about whether you decided to quit or pay in a few weeks.

And my golden rule of thumb, you either spend 0 in microtransaction, or at least 1000$, almost never in between since usually this game is designed with additional content that will dangling your carrot further and further, needing more and more money.

Isn't spending "at least $1000" already whale territory?

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#120
> The lootboxes in the game are against the law in your country, so unless the gambling restrictions change, the game will not be released in the Netherlands and Belgium.

I think it’s disturbing how they frame this as something the country has to change. As if it’s their fault for banning it, as opposed to Blizzards’ for making a gambling game in the first place.

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