HP to Keep PC Division • Hacker News Board

Re: HP to Keep PC Division

#21

Post by ScottBurson » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 10:34 PM UTC

firefoxman1 wrote: post #13

The_Sponge wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely. Besides the fact that almost no one actually has any faith in it as a platform due to the way HP dropped it, even if they did do a 180, people would still have shaken confidence. Not to mention that there are currently no currently officially selling WebOS devices (except for a few straggling phones in the discount bin), nor plans for new ones. And, when your competitors are Android, WP7, and iOS, getting o…

I'm sure you could find dozens of articles from 1996-1998 saying similar things about Apple, but imagine how different the world would be if Jobs listened to them and just declared Apple "dead" and didn't return to the company. WebOS is a great platform and it's not too late to save, but it needs a better company than HP to breathe new life into it. In my opinion, it's much better than iOS for tablets and larger devi…

In fairness, HP never proposed to "kill one of its largest sources of revenue". The idea was to get some cash by selling or spinning off a relatively low-margin division. Killing it would be ridiculous. IBM certainly didn't "kill" its PC division; Lenovo is now the #2 vendor.

Re: HP to Keep PC Division

#22

Post by Samuel_Michon » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 10:44 PM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #5

Personally, this fiasco seemed to me to mirror Netflix's recent missteps, just with far less press.

"You know what HP should do? They should acquire Netflix. Then a week later back away and say “Never mind.” Then a month later go ahead and buy Netflix. Those two are made for each other."

–John Gruber

Re: HP to Keep PC Division

#23

Post by dpio » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 10:54 PM UTC

firefoxman1 wrote: post #13

The_Sponge wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely. Besides the fact that almost no one actually has any faith in it as a platform due to the way HP dropped it, even if they did do a 180, people would still have shaken confidence. Not to mention that there are currently no currently officially selling WebOS devices (except for a few straggling phones in the discount bin), nor plans for new ones. And, when your competitors are Android, WP7, and iOS, getting o…

I'm sure you could find dozens of articles from 1996-1998 saying similar things about Apple, but imagine how different the world would be if Jobs listened to them and just declared Apple "dead" and didn't return to the company. WebOS is a great platform and it's not too late to save, but it needs a better company than HP to breathe new life into it. In my opinion, it's much better than iOS for tablets and larger devi…

webOS doesn't have a steve jobs, or else it might still be around.

Re: HP to Keep PC Division

#24

Post by stinkytaco » Thu, Oct 27, 2011, 11:19 PM UTC

jinushaun wrote: post #3

barredo wrote: post #2

Will they keep WebOS?

HP has clearly shown they are not good caretakers of WebOS. They best thing they could do is sell it off to someone who could make better use of it. Amazon? Although with the launch of the Fire, they're pretty much stuck on Android now...

I don't see why they're stuck on Android. The Android part is pretty hidden and if Amazon has shown an ability to do anything, it's to make wholesale changes without burning the place down. They also can sit on a property until they are ready for it (see: Slow integration of Audible, Goodreads). Indeed, it's possible they would like to get off Android to avoid being beholden to Google.

Re: HP to Keep PC Division

#25

Post by chugger » Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 12:12 AM UTC

aresant wrote: post #20

Understanding HP's dilemma is as simple as looking at the comps. HP is trading at 6.5x P/E currently. Yet HP's consulting business should be worth more separate (IBM at 14x, Accenture at 18x) And HP's hardware business should be worth more separate (compare Toshiba at 12x, Apple at 15x, even Dell at 9x) As a result I understand why they allowed Apotheker to do what he did. Cut ONCE, bleed heavily and launch two stron…

I agree. HP's hardware business is dragging down its stock price. this is one of the reasons why IBM sold off its PC division to Lenovo. Services and software usually provide a return on invested capital of 30 percent or more, compared to 15-20 percent for hardware.

IBM's ROIC is currently at 34.1% compared to HP's ROIC at 16.2%. After IBM sold off its PC division to Lenovo in 2005, IBM's ROIC grew from 17.75% in 2006 to 29.55% in 2010 with a 5 year average of 27.6%.In comparison HP's 5-year average ROIC is only 15.9%.

HP wanted to do the same thing IBM did 7 years ago. The big difference was that before selling off its PC division, IBM already had a strong software and services business (generating half of its revenue). they also bought PriceWaterHouseCoopers' consulting arm in 2002. HP's software and services business isn't nearly as strong, even after buying Autonomy so they got clobbered by analyst and the media.

Re: HP to Keep PC Division

#26

Post by soapdog » Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 12:24 AM UTC

thought_alarm wrote: post #10

barredo wrote: post #2

Will they keep WebOS?

WebOS has suffered from severe performance and stability problems for three years, with no solution in sight. This was demonstrated both when the WebOS application layer received a 2X performance boost when ported to WebKit on iOS, and again when Android was ported to the TouchPad hardware and was found to be quite a lot faster than WebOS. It's quite clear that it is a fundamentally flawed architecture without a futu…

It was not "WebOS Application layer" that was ported to WebKit on iOS, it was a simple Enyo app running. WebOS is a great OS. I have a Nexus S and an iPhone but I still use my old Palm Pre2 because I think the usability of WebOS is far greater than iOS or Android (and I am a developer for both platforms).

People tend to dismiss WebOS without ever touching a device. Yes, my Pre2 is not as fast as my Nexus S but guess what, for my daily tasks of emailing, web, agenda, evernotes and ebooks it is GREAT! The OS has a better experience and the development framework rocks. Enyo is wonderful, I wish it was open source.

You speak of a flawed architecture, I just see a beautiful system with a wonderful paradigm (the cards) that is aesthetically pleasing and a joy to develop for. If I could get my hands on a Pre3 or a TouchPad, I would buy it instantly but unfortunately, they are not available here.

Re: HP to Keep PC Division

#27

Post by bluedanieru » Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 12:52 AM UTC

thefreehunter wrote: post #17

mrich wrote: post #8

Wow. What is going on there? At first I thought Apotheker was hired to complete some "unpopular" tasks, and then a new CEO could start over. But it seems like the board was completely asleep while Apotheker made his decisions. I am looking forward to some massive lawsuits brought against these people. Apotheker probably was the most clever guy in this, and knew that he could make a quick 20 million even though he wou…

Lawsuits for what?

For not performing due diligence when discussing the company's strategy with the new CEO, leading to about two years of fucking around (after a decade of fucking around) and cratering the company's value to the shareholders.

Re: HP to Keep PC Division

#28

Post by nobody314 » Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 3:00 AM UTC

aresant wrote: post #20

Understanding HP's dilemma is as simple as looking at the comps. HP is trading at 6.5x P/E currently. Yet HP's consulting business should be worth more separate (IBM at 14x, Accenture at 18x) And HP's hardware business should be worth more separate (compare Toshiba at 12x, Apple at 15x, even Dell at 9x) As a result I understand why they allowed Apotheker to do what he did. Cut ONCE, bleed heavily and launch two stron…

Splitting off HP's hardware business doesn't suddenly make it worth the same as Apple's

That's like claiming if it spun off it's discount coupon business it would be worth the same as groupon.

Re: HP to Keep PC Division

#29

Post by firefoxman1 » Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 3:08 AM UTC

dpio wrote: post #23

firefoxman1 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you could find dozens of articles from 1996-1998 saying similar things about Apple, but imagine how different the world would be if Jobs listened to them and just declared Apple "dead" and didn't return to the company. WebOS is a great platform and it's not too late to save, but it needs a better company than HP to breathe new life into it. In my opinion, it's much better than iOS for tablets and larger devi…

webOS doesn't have a steve jobs, or else it might still be around.

Agreed. That's why I would love to see it in the hands of Bezos and team.

Re: HP to Keep PC Division

#30

Post by firefoxman1 » Fri, Oct 28, 2011, 3:16 AM UTC

ScottBurson wrote: post #21

firefoxman1 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you could find dozens of articles from 1996-1998 saying similar things about Apple, but imagine how different the world would be if Jobs listened to them and just declared Apple "dead" and didn't return to the company. WebOS is a great platform and it's not too late to save, but it needs a better company than HP to breathe new life into it. In my opinion, it's much better than iOS for tablets and larger devi…

In fairness, HP never proposed to "kill one of its largest sources of revenue". The idea was to get some cash by selling or spinning off a relatively low-margin division. Killing it would be ridiculous. IBM certainly didn't "kill" its PC division; Lenovo is now the #2 vendor.

While IBM wasn't nearly the world's biggest PC maker as HP is right now, I would like to see a similar deal happen with WebOS. Lenovo has proven to manage the thinkpad line better than IBM[1].

[1] http://www.tmcnet.com/topics/articles/229026-hp-remains-bigg...