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Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

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Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#61

Post by brazzledazzle »

javajosh wrote: post #29
hh3k0 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not fair, it's predatory behavior aimed at addicts and children. I hope the rest of the EU will follow the fine example set by NL and BE.

it's predatory behavior aimed at addicts and children. Have you played the game? I saw the OG YT video on this, and I was expecting to see lots of in-your-face tactics, but wanted to be fair before passing judgement. I really don't think it's predatory. At least, not yet. Maybe things change at higher levels - they sometimes do. (I'm looking for points where you can't progress in the mainline quest without spending m…

People aren’t really addicted to progress, that’s window dressing for the mechanic that gives you the gambler’s high.

I think a lot of folks who are effectively immune to gambling’s allure dismiss the danger to others when they don’t see anything slowing or blocking progression because that’s what would motivate them to even entertain the thought of engaging the gambling mechanic. I think what you’re really evaluating is whether or not it’s pay to win which while terrible, isn’t insidiously predatory.

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#62

Post by Izikiel43 »

jwmoz wrote: post #44

I hate how games nowadays have credits and tokens and gambling things. Totally ruined the purity of games, I'm a millennial ex-gamer and recently got back into games via a PS5 and noticed how everything has changed now for the worst.

Elden ring

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#63

Post by baby »

nonethewiser wrote: post #22

Remember when Blizzard mocked the fans who said Diablo 3 was too colorful and cartoony? Path of Exile is such a better successor to diablo 2.

Diablo 3 was really bad if you liked Diablo 2. Always felt like PoE was the real successor but didn’t really try it…

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#64

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

wincy wrote: post #48
lijogdfljk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it matters _when_ it becomes predatory. Whether or not gambling should be legal aside, if gambling for minors is illegal in a jurisdiction then i'd expect any game that becomes predatory at any point to be managed as gambling. All of this is subject to the definition of gambling, predatory, etc - of which i'm not trying to argue. Just saying that befriending children with the goal of handing them drugs…

Diablo Immortal is wild too because Diablo 2 primed me 15 years ago to be a gambling addict. It took them awhile but the finally turned the casino of my teens into a real casino. I hate it, I wish I could get my teen hours back that I played Diablo 2.

I played a bunch of D2 as well, and D3. The thing with those games is that you can still enjoy the end game content after finishing the main game. Repeat on higher difficulty and then you have the option of respecing without having to start from scratch.

If you are having to pay to enjoy end game now, that's pretty sad.

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#65

Post by numpad0 »

javajosh wrote: post #12

Immortal can be played for the mainline story without spending any money at all. So far, at least up to level 40 (about 12 hours of gameplay) I haven't felt the urge to spend money. It's a little like Path of Exile in that you can enjoy the base game and the story for free; it's only if you "get into it" that you start spending money (I never "got into it). I can't help but feel it's fair to give away a really nice g…

I don't get this comment. This is how the game is incompatible with gambling regulation. This is same as "casinos are great to stay because foods and drinks are cheap", it's cheap because the cost is offset by gambling income which is horrible. Am I missing something?

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#66

Post by lijogdfljk »

wincy wrote: post #48
lijogdfljk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it matters _when_ it becomes predatory. Whether or not gambling should be legal aside, if gambling for minors is illegal in a jurisdiction then i'd expect any game that becomes predatory at any point to be managed as gambling. All of this is subject to the definition of gambling, predatory, etc - of which i'm not trying to argue. Just saying that befriending children with the goal of handing them drugs…

Diablo Immortal is wild too because Diablo 2 primed me 15 years ago to be a gambling addict. It took them awhile but the finally turned the casino of my teens into a real casino. I hate it, I wish I could get my teen hours back that I played Diablo 2.

Agreed. I've often thought of this, with respect to MMOs, and RPGs/etc with drop rates.

Inherently games are all just dopamine drivers. Some are of course based on physical skills (coordination/timing/etc), others on knowledge as a skill (exploiting game mechanics/etc). Where it gets fuzzy fast for me is very basic MMOs, RPGs, etc - RNG based mechanics. The fact that i completed the dungeon with a skill (knowledge/etc to play the dungeon correctly and win) doesn't seem, to me, to change the RNG roll at the end.

I'm in no way arguing that any RNG equates to gambling.. in the classical sense.. but it kinda does, if you squint. So when does it become bad? Is it when we make gambling addicts? Because old fashioned games with RNG rewards (loot/etc) likely form addicts (if we stretch the word for discussion).. myself included. Or is it just when we involve money?

Money seems an easy line to draw.. but is it fair to children if we make them gambling addicts and only charge them once they hit 18? Spend their youth training for the casinos, only to take part when their old enough to lose it all?

I don't have any answers.. but it feels like we're playing fast and loose with weaponized dopamine here. As with most of our society, i suppose.

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#67

Post by amatecha »

Izikiel43 wrote: post #62
jwmoz wrote: post #44

I hate how games nowadays have credits and tokens and gambling things. Totally ruined the purity of games, I'm a millennial ex-gamer and recently got back into games via a PS5 and noticed how everything has changed now for the worst.

Elden ring

True. I did feel an actual sense of relief at like... you just buy the game, and you have the game, and you get what you paid for, and there's no manipulative BS trying to bilk even more money out of you. None of this "there's sooo much more available, but at a price, on top of what you already paid". Plus the game is just damn awesome outside of all that!

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#68

Post by amatecha »

water554 wrote: post #50
falcolas wrote: post #32

Just remember folks: According to ABK this game took as many resources as a mainline PC game. So, instead of having a D4 release, with a D5 release on the horizon, we got Diablo Immoral.

Nah this one was developed by Chinese devs.

... who could have been working on Diablo 4.

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#69

Post by Madmallard »

javajosh wrote: post #12

Immortal can be played for the mainline story without spending any money at all. So far, at least up to level 40 (about 12 hours of gameplay) I haven't felt the urge to spend money. It's a little like Path of Exile in that you can enjoy the base game and the story for free; it's only if you "get into it" that you start spending money (I never "got into it). I can't help but feel it's fair to give away a really nice g…

Not remotely similar to Path of Exile and that comparison reveals inexperience in the field.

Diablo Immoral is a very thinly veiled Lost Ark clone gacha game reskinned as a simplified diablo 3. There is very little meaningful feeling to loot. The skills are all really simple and there's just a couple different builds to pick between that it even lays it out for you. It hand holds you all the way through to the point of being bottable with an auto-clicker.

You can't do any of that in Path of Exile and you find meaningful items all the way throughout the game at every step of the way and your build truly your own if you want it to be at every step of the way. Then the content itself has great variety and there is extensive challenge to it.

I haven't gotten to end-game in diablo immoral but I wouldn't be surprised if it's literally a direct clone of end-game lost ark but simpler and basically hard stops you if you don't pay for legendary gem upgrades on every piece of gear. And at that point there really is nothing to the game at all. It's pay us money to beat the monster. No technical skills no build depth no variety of equipment. It's your 5 star gacha rolls or no dice.

Even at level 40 now I'm experiencing serious content rot. There's just nothing to the game at all. It is such a thin veil it's easy to see through instantaneously. It's the same as Lost Ark. Do this auto-generated dungeon from this town portal in town or do that one. They're all the same thing with very little variation. But you don't even get anything out of them meaningful. You either get a very obviously rapidly declining EXP curve or a tiny bit of loot (unless you bring those precious legendary crests!)

Re: Diablo Immortal won't release in the Netherlands and Belgium due to loot box law

#70

Post by tempestn »

hh3k0 wrote: post #17
javajosh wrote: post #12

Immortal can be played for the mainline story without spending any money at all. So far, at least up to level 40 (about 12 hours of gameplay) I haven't felt the urge to spend money. It's a little like Path of Exile in that you can enjoy the base game and the story for free; it's only if you "get into it" that you start spending money (I never "got into it). I can't help but feel it's fair to give away a really nice g…

It's not fair, it's predatory behavior aimed at addicts and children. I hope the rest of the EU will follow the fine example set by NL and BE.

I agree. Then hopefully some companies will shift back to the model of making games and selling them. This whole FTP model has horribly misaligned incentives.
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