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Welcome to the M1 Windows project

amarioguy.github.io

201–210 of 276 posts

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#201
I am struggling to see here how this shouldn't be something that Microsoft does itself. And, if Microsoft is doing it, they can just call Apple and get what they need re: documentation or specs or questions answered. They might just need appropriate NDAs between the two companies (which I'd have to imagine they already have?)?

With Linux they have to reverse-engineer it. Microsoft shouldn't need to...

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The operating systems industry could use a bit of a shake up. There is no OS industry anymore. What's left is OS's that ship telemetry and ads to customers (both Apple and MS do this). Linux-based OS's made a lot of progress, but still they're not ready for mass adoption.

I have a pretty good handle on what ads and telemetry MS ships. What ads and telemetry does Apple ship to their customers?

For starters in the telemetry category:

- Every CLI program you start

- Every app you download and run

- Every typo you type

- Every siri conversation you have

Just like Windows, you can opt out with some shenanigans.

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. Officially there is an ARM build of Windows that Microsoft licenses to OEMs, and there is (or maybe was?) Windows IoT Core which has a build for ARM. If I recall (grain of salt then) a while after the first M1 Mac came out one of Apple’s VPs had said something on the record about Apple having tried to get Microsoft to sell retail licenses of a Windows 10 for ARM build, because they didn’t want to deprecate B…

>a while after the first M1 Mac came out one of Apple’s VPs had said something on the record about Apple having tried to get Microsoft to sell retail licenses of a Windows 10 for ARM build Not quite. The Craig Federighi quote is: >As for Windows running natively on the machine, “that’s really up to Microsoft,” he said. “We have the core technologies for them to do that, to run their ARM version of Windows, which in t…

My own pet theory, based on absolutely no inside knowledge, is that MS doesn’t want to have Windows on M1+ until other CPU makers have caught up to Apple. It would be a huge embarrassment to have Apple hardware running Windows that much better than all the native PCs. All the PC OEMs would slash Nadella’s tires.

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows on ARM supports that already[1]. The low traction is probably because of the (sorry) bad hardware. Windows branded ARM as the budget option so nobody wanted it. Then Apple came along and flipped the script. [1]: https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2020/12/10/introdu...

It’s not just that the hardware was lacking, there was no good solution for running x86 binaries. ARM windows has no Rosetta.

[deleted]

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#205
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot have a "fully open" license which disallows commercial usage. Both the OSI and FSF definitions of "open source" and "free software" licenses would exclude such a license. Of course you can create a proprietary license which disallows commercial usage, but it won't be "fully open".

FSF-compatible licenses absolutely can exclude commercial usage, and software can be made simultaneously available under a separate (paid) commercial license if the authors wish. It's only the OSI that doesn't allow this.

> FSF-compatible licenses absolutely can exclude commercial usage

Can they? The FSF seems pretty strict on saying that commercial usage cannot be excluded.

> “Free software” does not mean “noncommercial.” On the contrary, a free program must be available for commercial use, commercial development, and commercial distribution. This policy is of fundamental importance—without this, free software could not achieve its aims.

From https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#206
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft and Apple are traditional enemies. Microsoft has no reason to make Apple's hardware more attractive to customers. The thing I don't get is why a consumer would want this. You want an _extremely expensive_ windows laptop. I guess the hope would be that the battery life is worlds better than anything you'd get in standard windows-land. But in reality battery life optimization requires paying careful to the de…

Why would Microsoft not want this? They make money off of selling Windows licenses, not selling hardware (Yes, I'm aware the Surface exists). The more available hardware to install Windows etc on, the more $ Microsoft makes.

Making sure that windows works properly and keeping it working for however long they want to support it has got to cost a bunch of money. The question is, will they ever sell enough Windows licenses for M1(/2/3/etc.) Macs to make up for that investment, let alone profit?

I kind of doubt it.

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows on ARM supports that already[1]. The low traction is probably because of the (sorry) bad hardware. Windows branded ARM as the budget option so nobody wanted it. Then Apple came along and flipped the script. [1]: https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2020/12/10/introdu...

It’s not just that the hardware was lacking, there was no good solution for running x86 binaries. ARM windows has no Rosetta.

ARM Windows (it was actually always THUMB2 Windows) was officially discontinued as of RT, without ever getting the x86_32 emulator let alone the x86_64 one.

But unoffically, there is a leaked build of Windows 10 15035 for ARM32, and it's possible to sideload it onto an original Windows RT device.

The x86_32 emulator was present in the ARM64 Windows release by this point, but, i don't know if the leaked ARM32 release includes an ARM32 version of the x86_32 emulator.

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#208
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot have a "fully open" license which disallows commercial usage. Both the OSI and FSF definitions of "open source" and "free software" licenses would exclude such a license. Of course you can create a proprietary license which disallows commercial usage, but it won't be "fully open".

FSF-compatible licenses absolutely can exclude commercial usage, and software can be made simultaneously available under a separate (paid) commercial license if the authors wish. It's only the OSI that doesn't allow this.

> FSF-compatible licenses absolutely can exclude commercial usage

No, they can't, use-restricted licenses are non-free, by the FSF definition.

> software can be made simultaneously available under a separate (paid) commercial license if the authors wish.

This is true, but the Free license cannot be use-restricted, or it ceases to be a Free license (if the copyright owner, owing no obligation to any upstream licensor, does it, they could add the use restriction to a Free license, but it would by that act cease to be a free license; that violates Freedom 0.)

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#209
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a license is not possible.

How exactly is that? There are plenty of licenses that don't allow commercial usage.

Discriminating against commercial usage is not allowed under the Open Source Definition:

https://opensource.org/osd

Re: Welcome to the M1 Windows project

#210
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't imagine why a Windows user would want to run it on better hardware? Or that there are Windows workflows that just don't work on OSX? Or want a fanless laptop with good performance?

TBH I have a hard time understanding why people choose to run windows at all, except for playing games. If you're stuck using windows because the corporate overlords insist, then yeah that sucks. Also you can always run windows in a VM. Even on an M1.

Windows has fantastic accessibility properties/support. They even have a blind dev working on Visual Studio (or did)[0] for awhile. Apple's accessibility options are not anywhere near on-par with Windows. Linux ... I honestly haven't ever tried a screen reader in Linux and I have a feeling it is 100% up to whichever dev implemented something with no centralized style of doing things.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94swlF55tVc

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