Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

861–870 of 1001 posts

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#861

Post by mlindner »

nayuki wrote: post #603
mlindner wrote: post #447

Imagine they had made this dumb decision back when Micro USB was the standard. We would have never gotten anything better than Micro USB. Governments shouldn't be in the market of mandating that a specific technical standards must be used as it freezes innovation. Also purely in terms of usability, the Apple thunderbolt plug is easier to clean and less error prone on insertion as it self-centers.

Thunderbolt has the same connector as USB-C. Surely you mean Apple Lightning.

Correct. I can't seem to edit my post though.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#862

Post by Aeolun »

robonerd wrote: post #637
bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway. USB-C is more than adequate, we could coast with it for the next hundred years. Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs, the standards countries have settled on today, while not all equivalent, are all generally satisfactory in practice. Problem solved; stop fixing that which ain't broke and move on to ot…

> There comes a point where that is actually true.

Like IPv6

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#863

Post by scarface74 »

layer8 wrote: post #833
scarface74 wrote: post #792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t speak German. But the best summary I found doesn’t say that manufacturers have to support cell phones for 7 years with operating system or security updates like Apple has been doing.

I changed the link, it displayed in English for me. The relevant quote is: “objective requirements […] are met only if the consumer is […] provided with updates for the usual period of the product's use and service life. The update obligation may regularly exceed the applicable warranty period.” The courts will have to decide what “the usual period of the product's use and service life” means exactly, but certainly l…

So it’s a law with no teeth and vague generalities. How many technical documents have that amount of vagueness?

For reference, the iPhone 6S released in 2015 will lose operating system updates this year. The 2013 iPhone 5s got a security update this year.

What are the chances that any Android manufactures will support their phones that long?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#864

Post by dhzhzjsbevs »

ubermonkey wrote: post #397
dhzhzjsbevs wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apples racketeering and monopolistic behavior? I think this is a step over the line for regulators but so is apples behavior for the last decade or two when it comes to repairability. Fuck em.

HN loves to describe Apple as a monopoly, but it really only shows that HN readers don't know the definition of "monopoly."

I said monopolistic not monopoly. To say apple is a monopoly would be incorrect. To describe their behavior with service, repair, the app store, and lightening cable fees as anything other than monopolistic would be intellectually dishonest.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#865

Post by dhzhzjsbevs »

rootusrootus wrote: post #189
dhzhzjsbevs wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apples racketeering and monopolistic behavior? I think this is a step over the line for regulators but so is apples behavior for the last decade or two when it comes to repairability. Fuck em.

> Apples racketeering and monopolistic behavior? That's a bit over the top, don't you think? When Apple created the Lightning connector, the accepted alternative was micro-USB. And micro-USB is terrible, awful, no-good, crap . Many millions of people are happy Lightning existed to bridge the time before the rest of the world could design a slightly better small USB connector. Which, of course, might still not be as d…

Like I said, regulators stepping in is an overstep for the reason you're stating. It's a free market, they built a better mouse trap.

But at this point, USBC is the better mousetrap, they're now just using their market dominance to force a worse mouse trap on everyone to keep milking lucrative patent fees outside of what an efficient market would allow.

So again, fuck em.

Side note, this is why I really hate IP law (or at least the over the top term lengths of it). If they didn't have a monopoly on lightening connectors this wouldn't be a problem and the market would resolve this "problem" on it's own.

You don't get to act like they're just behaving like a free market participant should when they're actively exploiting a different market regulation.

I wonder what the fix here is. Would it be choosing a patent term length that optimises for spurring innovation?

Too short and you make it not worth while. Too long and things stagnate like this. Why does society put up with such suboptimal market parameters?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#866

Post by Smoosh »

coolspot wrote: post #773
sydd wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the current USB-C situation is a mess, and this regulation plans to solve this. I got a pretty expensive HP monitor for work from my company that connects via USB-C (and can charge my Mac). IT has sworn me to not loose its USB-C cable because for some unknown reasons it refuses to work with other cables, it costs >$100 and is constantly out of stock.

Oculus Link for example is a USB-C cable that is not copper, but optical. This allows it to have very high bandwidth and long length (16ft/5m). Hence the price.

It that like a Thunderbolt-3 cable which has electrical connectors at each end, but the data is transmitted over fibre?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#867

Post by Zak »

solarkraft wrote: post #657
robonerd wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway. USB-C is more than adequate, we could coast with it for the next hundred years. Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs, the standards countries have settled on today, while not all equivalent, are all generally satisfactory in practice. Problem solved; stop fixing that which ain't broke and move on to ot…

> Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs Mandatory Tom Scott video about bri'ish power plugs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEfP1OKKz_Q :-)

I like US plugs. Sure, it's easier to shock yourself with them, but you usually only do that once (because it feels bad, not because it's often fatal).

I like them because they're small. I have a nifty little 3-port USB-A/C power supply where the plug folds flush. Europlug would have trouble doing that, and it's outright impossible with Schuko and UK plugs.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#868

Post by kylecordes »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #703
samatman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

I's absolutely true that Tesla's EV connector is better than CCS, and it's a pity that Tesla lost that battle. But it's also true that USB-C with PD is better than the alternatives in its space so occasionally the committees get things right.

I wonder if 50 years from now we will all still be stuck with the comically awful CCS.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#869

Post by kylecordes »

bin_bash wrote: post #246
malfist wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is tesla's connector nicer?

It’s a lot smaller, locks into the car while charging, and doesn’t have an extra flap you have to open when using DC fast charging.

I can scarcely imagine the shame of an engineer speccing that awful plastic flap on $100,000 car.

What do you tell your children?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#870

Post by ultrarunner »

thaway2839 wrote: post #764
tomp wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument would sound less hollow if there weren’t two existing superior (from a user experience perspective) alternatives already on the market. Apple’s Lightning (thinner than USB-C) and MagSafe (safer than USB-C for charging laptops… so glad Apple is transitioning back to it for M2 Airs)

Lightning cables don't last. They are a complete disaster. And that's not even considering how a little bit of dust can prevent your device from charging at all, and lightning ports are a complete dust magnet. But the best argument against "what about lightning?" is the fact that Apple themselves don't use it on their higher powered devices like macs, and use USB-C instead.

I was never sure if it was dust causing my phone to refuse to charge or Apple's gatekeeping "official" cables. There used to be jailbreak tweaks that would allow unauthorized cables to suddenly start working fine, but the best I could do in iOS 14 was get a cable to maintain the battery (without charging it). Perhaps Apple is shooting their own standard in the foot simply by enforcing their certification program.

That said, you're absolutely right that its limit is reached already with phones. Some old cables have two pins (presumably VDD) that are discolored from use. Would not want lightning for charging a laptop.

Post reply on HN