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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#691

Post by alkonaut »

maccard wrote: post #7

The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. As an example, my Apple 96W USB-C charger doesn't charge my nintendo switch. The cable that came with my phone doesn't charge said fully Mac when used with the 96w charger. There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices until you realise they don't work. This is going back to the dc…

Then at least one isn't USB-C? Or the spec isn't good enough?

The regulation (I hope) is about actually adhering to USB-C, not merely shipping with USB-C connectors. And the bar to pass should be to be able to use a large stack of USB-C chargers and work.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#692

Post by theptip »

simion314 wrote: post #520
theptip wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your analogy isn’t right. None of those standards are mandatory. Would M.2 have come out when it did if you needed to change the law to permit it to be used over SATA? USB-C is already a standard just like all your other examples. This law forbids using other standards. > New innovations can be brought forth in the same way they are with the other standards mentioned above: developed in a harmonised manner I…

> By definition it is now harder to innovate on charging cables simply because you can’t try something new. Sure you can, because you have to support the standard but Apple could invent HyperSuperCoolRoundedCornerCharger and put it as an alternative, if it charges hyper super faster then the standard the customers will prefer it and buy the super expensive platinum Apple Genuine DRM protected charger and Apple makes…

To be clear, if USB-C charging is mandatory, you cannot have an alternative charging port, unless you want to have multiple ports on your device, which is (I think obviously) absurd. By requiring USB-C, you forbid other port types from being used. So this regulation is forbidding Apple from using their Lightning connector, and also forbidding any other vendor from introducing an alternative. Without revision it presumably also forbids anyone from using USB-D if/when that comes out.

Ironically the mode of experimentation from Apple that you're describing as desirable is the current state of the world, and is the thing that is being forbidden here; this regulation is explicitly targeted at getting Apple to stop using their alternative "HyperSuperCoolRoundedCornerCharger" as you put it, and to change their product to use USB-C.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#693

Post by ponow »

enkid wrote: post #681
ponow wrote: post #676

I don't accept the right of governments to intervene in what I and a seller agree to transact. It's an inalienable right where people care about such things. Definitely not in the EU. If you have a problem with pollution, then properly cost that pollution on an even basis, instead of picking and choosing deep pockets and other politically palatable targets. Man, the 2nd amendment is there for a reason.

The second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with this. This is the EU and the second amendment is about "bearing arms," not selling electronic equipment.

Also, that isn't my main point, about the (lack of) justice of such action by the EU. I am actually annoyed by incompatible cabling, but understand that the remedy is almost always worse than the disease, so reserve intervention to clear natural rights violations. The EU is an inadequate alternative to Consumer Reports, product reviews, and experience. Also, not everyone has the same values, so the EU is picking priorities for us, which is immoral.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#694

Post by peheje »

joadha wrote: post #638
leadingthenet wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's say the USB consortium releases USB-D with input from Apple, Google, and many other stakeholders [...] If you have to make such an argument, you've already lost. Innovation, particularly disruptive and / or breakthrough innovation, does not happen by committee, no matter how many times over history people tried deluding themselves into thinking that it does. So no, it's not fine.

Would you mind clarifying your argument? How would you define "breakthrough innovation"? I think that's critical to my understanding of your point.

Not OP. But a breakthrough innovation in charging could be a new battery-technology holding charge for much longer but required different charging specifications offered by USB-C. Such a breakthrough would hopefully get enough attention from EU to get the law updated. Or they might want the devices to still have USB-C? Who knows who's in charge then.

Also missing from this discussion is the fact that even if the law is only about charging it will define he go-to data-connection for smaller devices for a long time, where an additional port will be dimensionally challenging, more costly to add as well as difficult to make water-resistant.

I am sympathetic for reducing e-waste, but I'm unsure where this will lead us. Crypto-mining is also bad for the environment but might hold unknown positive possibilities if explored properly (maybe reduce bureaucracy, avoid monopolies) that could be extinguished by a premature ban.

I am already paying some of the highest taxes on consumer products compared to other countries in the world, I would rather pay even more for a charger, phone etc., remember an adapter when out and about and keep the freedom of choosing which technologies to support.

*Also just wanted to add that even if OP mentioned the committee, I'm unsure how much you can compare that to EU making laws enforceable in 27 countries.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#695

Post by krzyk »

ciupicri wrote: post #684
mrtksn wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…

Quoted post unavailable.

What's wrong with "charger thing"? I was waiting for that for years.

And GDPR? Really?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#696

Post by ClumsyPilot »

CardenB wrote: post #595
lynguist wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, we have the headphone jack (6.35mm) stemming from 1877, and its miniature form (3.5mm) from 1960. It’s ok to let USB-C live for another 60-100 years.

This is a flawed comparison because the use cases for the former examples are very limited in comparison to USB C which is arguably evolving rapidly still. You could imagine if we had formed such a standard around USB A in the 90s and how it might have blocked the already high friction establishment of USB C and thunderbolt 3 standards. USB C currently seems more mature than USB A, so I can see where things ar ea bit…

This regulation is about charging - so power, not data / thunderbolt. And when it comes to charging USB C can delvier 100W, which is enough for any small gadget, phone, etc.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#698

Post by saiya-jin »

jackewiehose wrote: post #611
kashyapc wrote: post #566

USB-C for laptop power ports seems to be incredibly flaky. :-( Let me share my ongoing horror story (excuse the verbosity): I've got a barely 3-months old Lenovo X1 Carbon (Gen-9) work laptop. A week ago I noticed the battery draining while the power cord is plugged in! Nothing worked: reset via the pinhole at the back, trying out different chargers, BIOS update, charging while the OS (Linux) is shut down, "to elimin…

> "this time let's replace both the motherboard and also the power adapter" [...] > I want to think this is just plain bad luck, but the Lenovo support forums are full of similar problems, and two other colleagues independently confirmed the same issue Oh no, I have to confirm this too. Had the same issue with my X1 Carbon Gen-9. They replaced the motherboard (and hopefully the power adapter). At least so far it's st…

I would not blame entire global USB-C standard for issues of one manufacturer.

Ie I have company HP laptop with USB-C charging, something aluminium 'elite', tiny and quite powerful for my needs (not in same room as me now). It works like charm, and since its not mine I treat it relatively very badly (no concern for any kind of protection, travelling on vacations full of sand like right now, its laying on the floor so kids play with it, bang on it, I sometimes roll with chair over it etc).

since its a solid 65w charger it charges my laptop, my phone, wife's phone, our powerbank, our headlamps, my vaporizer, both our wireless buds, gopro, camera, and probably some other stuff. The only stuff it doesnt works on... micro-usb.

Its really magical, the simplifying life a bit when usual (annoying) trend is of growing complexity. For once, thank you EU.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#699

Post by kukx »

ciupicri wrote: post #684
mrtksn wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…

Quoted post unavailable.

Agree 100%. The cookie law is the most visible failure of these regulations. I feel like they should pay me from their own pockets each time I have to click the cookie banner. And by their own pockets I mean the money they got from other sources than taxpayers money. Of course someone will argue that the intentions were good. Often they are! But it does not make it much better.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#700

Post by scarface74 »

DannyBee wrote: post #680
scarface74 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this had gone through the first time, we would have all been stuck with micro usb. Customers can choose to buy Android phones.

No, acutally, you would not have. You would have been stuck with a standard until they changed the standard. Which ... you are in the same boat now? Beyond that, this is the magical free market will fix everything. Despite all evidence to the contrary.

So now we would have to wait years for lawmakers to approve the new standard?

Yes, you are very free to choose an Android phone with USB-C if that’s what you want - just like over 65% of the EU does.

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