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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#671

Post by bonzini »

CardenB wrote: post #595
lynguist wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, we have the headphone jack (6.35mm) stemming from 1877, and its miniature form (3.5mm) from 1960. It’s ok to let USB-C live for another 60-100 years.

This is a flawed comparison because the use cases for the former examples are very limited in comparison to USB C which is arguably evolving rapidly still. You could imagine if we had formed such a standard around USB A in the 90s and how it might have blocked the already high friction establishment of USB C and thunderbolt 3 standards. USB C currently seems more mature than USB A, so I can see where things ar ea bit…

The first version of the EU regulation suggested USB micro. There's a reason why it took ten years to go from suggestion to requirement.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#672

Post by dfox »

_ea1k wrote: post #391
samatman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

> Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) I like the Tesla connector in the US, but in Europe, I'd argue that CCS2 is objectively superior. They need 3-phase power support and the Tesla connector doesn't support that. They also use a different CCS connector from the US. The CCS2 connector uses a latching mechanism that is similar to the proprietary Tesla one. Its simple and very reliabl…

I would say that the IEC 62196-2 used by Tesla in Europe is the most sane EV charging connector design there is. It is standard (albeit in the fast charge mode it is apparently only used by Tesla), the connector is not ridiculously large and the whole mechanical design is derived from industrial power connector that can be used to power entire typical European household.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#673

Post by dfox »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #258
mrtksn wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it boils down to "as long as the USB-C is provided" Can you provide a source? AFAIK you can have a device without USB-C and only wireless charging.

it's literally in the first page in so far as they are capable of being recharged via wired charging, shall: so you can have all the funny cables you want, as long as you provide the USB-C plug If there is no wired charging, there is no problem of funny cables. but companies are free to experiment all the kinds of wired charging they want, it's just more convenient to have a standard and they'll comply happily I gues…

There is a huge question of what exactly “are capable of being recharged via wired charging” means. Does the hidden Lightning connector on Apple Watch that most consumers don't even know is there count?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#674

Post by usr1106 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #649
leadingthenet wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's say the USB consortium releases USB-D with input from Apple, Google, and many other stakeholders [...] If you have to make such an argument, you've already lost. Innovation, particularly disruptive and / or breakthrough innovation, does not happen by committee, no matter how many times over history people tried deluding themselves into thinking that it does. So no, it's not fine.

who needs breakthrough innovation for a charger? It's like the C++ programming language, I just want it to work everywhere. Programming languages have been designed by committee just fine.

That's a weird argument. What would you say if EU demanded us to stop programming in Python, Rust, bash and mandate that only C++ must used?

No, I have no problem with the USB-C mandate. But the analogy seems weird.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#675

Post by mlok »

nocoolnametom wrote: post #633
bsnal wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like history of computing goes against this

In order to talk to my friends, family, and coworkers I need to have the following apps installed and running: Slack, Teams, Telegram, Signal, WhatsApp, Google Chat/Hangouts/Allo/Whatever, FB Messenger, Discord, Twitter, etc. It'd take a pretty strong argument to convince me that this is so much more productive and allows for more innovation than the old days when the spec for things like Email, HTTP, IRC, XMPP allow…

I really hope Matrix bridges will help bring back some sanity on this front.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#676

Post by ponow »

I don't accept the right of governments to intervene in what I and a seller agree to transact. It's an inalienable right where people care about such things. Definitely not in the EU.

If you have a problem with pollution, then properly cost that pollution on an even basis, instead of picking and choosing deep pockets and other politically palatable targets.

Man, the 2nd amendment is there for a reason.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#677

Post by enkid »

ZekeSulastin wrote: post #586
bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

“The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves” I don’t think anyone’s mentioned that. Oh my god, tech social media is going to melt down when that kicks in if the reaction to chargers being excluded is any indication (not to mention a repeat of the shift from 30-pin to Lightning in Apple’s case, except now without a cable).

If it comes with being able to buy a $5 cable to act as a charge, I don't see how people could complain. (But I know they will.)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#678

Post by DannyBee »

ubermonkey wrote: post #395
DannyBee wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice." Why? Everything is usb or lightning because people complained, and everyone but apple listened to people. If USB-C is no longer the best thing, rather than complain to 10 companies, and hope they all agree, they will complain to regulators, and hope they agree. W…

I'm really not away of a lot of Apple people complaining about Lightning. I mean, I am one, and lightning doesn't bother me at all and never has. I don't see a consumer win here, basically. I see overreach.

They did complain, greatly, when apple first did it.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#679

Post by ciupicri »

mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

Speaking of cars and standardization, I'm still waiting for the European Union to put the steering wheel on the left side of the car and while we're at it, make it mandatory to drive on the right side of the road.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#680

Post by DannyBee »

scarface74 wrote: post #348
DannyBee wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't designing anything, they mandate an overall requirement - "You must all use the same charge port". This is no different than any other customer - they are just representing the overall customers who would otherwise not have enough power or voice to achieve what they want. Also - if you don't want your industry regulated, maybe don't make a mess of it? Regulators rarely pay attention to things that are wor…

If this had gone through the first time, we would have all been stuck with micro usb. Customers can choose to buy Android phones.

No, acutally, you would not have. You would have been stuck with a standard until they changed the standard. Which ... you are in the same boat now?

Beyond that, this is the magical free market will fix everything. Despite all evidence to the contrary.

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