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Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

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Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#431

Post by nine_k »

k__ wrote: post #376
Panoramix wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a silly and naive take. This investment will tremendously boost the semiconductor ecosystem in Germany. In the long run, this will do wonders when German companies want to or have to expand their capabilities, find more employees, design, package or assemble chips, buy wafers, equipment, supply chain, you name it. It's about building an ecosystem, much like SV. People on HN of all places should know this.

Really? I didn't read anything good about working for Intel.

You likely didn't hear much about any great Intel chips for the last nearly decade.

This is why they have changed the top management, and are changing internally, as much as I can judge by the press.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#432

Post by PKop »

rat87 wrote: post #410
PKop wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is though, they get something like 40% of their gas from Russia, and 30% of oil imports. It is immensely in the interest of Germany to have good relations and continued trade with Russia.

No it's in Germanys interest to f*ck Russia up as much as they can financially (and in terms of weapon shipments ( in the hope it ends the war sooner. And diversify their energy. Germany's intrest is for Ukraine to win as quick as possible Before the war Germany at least had a reasonable sounding argument (peace through trade) but it's been proven totally wrong they need to admit they were wrong and move on

>Ukraine to win as quick as possible

It is not possible for Ukraine to win, they are slowly but methodically getting their country destroyed. What does Germany lighting money on fire funding this destruction do for German interests?

How does this solve their energy needs? It doesn't, it along with sanctions makes energy more expensive. Where they used to be able to buy all energy in Euro's, now some of these purchases now require buying Rubles. Thus Ruble exchange rate is up and Russia's trade surplus is growing.

Germany's alliance with NATO expansion and US meddling in Ukraine along with following US lead to cancel Nord Stream 2 is crushing their economy. Self-sanctioning out of Russian cheap energy supplies will further destroy their industrial output.

>hope it ends the war sooner

hope. That's all they have. It will only impoverish them sooner. Diversification of energy is a worthy goal, but it insane to do this now by first cutting off their primary cheap energy supply. First, continue to buy as much cheap energy as Russia will sell them (instead of selling it to the East). Then, cancel ESG green insanity and pursue oil/gas investments and nuclear expansion wherever possible. But at the end of the day if your neighbor wants to have good trade relations with you, you shouldn't throw that away in service to your "ally" across the ocean.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#433

Post by wafriedemann »

leonry wrote: post #427

Why Magdeburg? I have a really hard time to find an argument that puts the city in an advantageous position relative to other competitor places (like Dresden, Munich agglomeration, Rhein/Main area, Hamburg agglomeration).

If the government pays subsidies they will combine it with strengthening economically weaker areas. No one needs more high quality jobs in the overcrowded and overly expensive Munich area.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#434

Post by PKop »

rat87 wrote: post #374
PKop wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are dependent on and subservient to the US and its geopolitical interests. We see this right now with Germany self-sabotaging it's own economy and industrial power by cutting off cheap Russian energy at the direction of US policy interests (Nord Stream 2 was agreed upon for years between Russia and Germany but thwarted at every turn, sanctioned etc by US).

It wasn't thwarted at every turn. Maybe we should have but we didn't, at least not at every turn. We did warn then it was a bad idea. Other countries especially countries in Eastern EU warned them it was a bad idea. And lo and behold trying to bring peace through trade didn't work with Russia. Unless Germany wants to exit the EU like the UK it does have to take the interests of other EU countries into account, many o…

US sanctioned Swiss and Russian suppliers constructing the pipeline, and debated in Congress and Whitehouse various policies to ban it's activation.

>it was a bad idea

It isn't a bad idea. It's a very good idea for Europe. Cheap plentiful energy supply from your neighbor and expanded economic relations would be a very good thing for making Europe economy strong.

Sanctioning Russia is hurting Europe severely. They have massive gas and oil needs supplied by Europe. The sanctions hurt German industry and this energy cannot be replaced by other sources anywhere near similar prices or volumes

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#435

Post by davidktr »

leonry wrote: post #427

Why Magdeburg? I have a really hard time to find an argument that puts the city in an advantageous position relative to other competitor places (like Dresden, Munich agglomeration, Rhein/Main area, Hamburg agglomeration).

Why not? Cheap, Uni Magdeburg is pretty good in STEM, water (yes that is an issue!), close enough to Berlin and Wolfsburg (Volkswagen), good transportation.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#436

Post by dmitrij »

leonry wrote: post #427

Why Magdeburg? I have a really hard time to find an argument that puts the city in an advantageous position relative to other competitor places (like Dresden, Munich agglomeration, Rhein/Main area, Hamburg agglomeration).

Already prepared grand space for industrial use with energy, water and public transport; 100% carbon neutral wind energy and very soon also water-neutrality were a few of the reasons given.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#437

Post by oezi »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #304
madrox wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I ultimately believe you're correct (along with open borders and travel) I wish there were more rigorous proofs that this were the case. I think about the line in West Wing: "Free trade is essential for human rights...the end of that sentence is 'we hope because nothing else has worked.' ...Chinese political prisoners are going to be sewing soccer balls with their teeth whether we sell them cheeseburgers or not…

Human rights is more than just political rights or speech. Hundreds of millions of Chinese lifted out of poverty is a huge win for human rights. When you're poor, you're not free. Having grown up with dirty streets and beggars, you can't possibly imagine how big a deal it is for me to see my hometown transforming into a modern metropolis, and how my grandparents-in-law (in a different city, in a rural area) finaly ha…

This is all fine and good until the Chinese government is leading China down a path of aggression abroad or to a genocide such as in Xinjiang.

As a German believe me if I tell you that being under a totalitarian regime can backfire pretty quickly. It took Hitler only 6 years. Putin took longer but hundreds of thousands are dead for just this year alone.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#438

Post by [deleted] »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #279
wazoox wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the main argument for global trade already in 1914. France was Germany's most important commercial partner, and vice-versa. All German rifles had stocks made from French walnut wood! All French locomotives had German-made tubing! This stupid mantra was repeated ad nauseam after 1991, too, with silly op-eds from Friedman and friends about how two countries with McDonald joints in both can't be at war and simi…

A connected world is not a guaranteed sufficient condition for peace. But that does not mean it's not a necessary condition for peace. One could argue that without economic interconnectivity, Europe could have fought WW1 much earlier, or would have had wars much more often.

[deleted]

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#440

Post by jhgb »

wazoox wrote: post #270
ISL wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very important for national stability. A highly-interconnected global economy is arguably better at securing international stability.

That was the main argument for global trade already in 1914. France was Germany's most important commercial partner, and vice-versa. All German rifles had stocks made from French walnut wood! All French locomotives had German-made tubing! This stupid mantra was repeated ad nauseam after 1991, too, with silly op-eds from Friedman and friends about how two countries with McDonald joints in both can't be at war and simi…

I'd like to think, though, that today's economic connections are less replaceable than wooden stocks or steel tubes. Try replacing modern electronics with local resources when you're Russia, for example.
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