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The State of Indiana Has a Pregnancy Tracking App

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Re: The State of Indiana Has a Pregnancy Tracking App

#21

Post by midislack »

MandieD wrote: post #14
midislack wrote: post #9

Quoted post unavailable.

As a person who minded my own business on abortion until one saved my fertility and possibly my life, I’m grateful that the state left which manner in which my ectopic pregnancy was ended up to me and the hospital staff. “But that wasn’t an abortion! That was a medical emergency!” In Poland now, and Ireland before women’s liberation a few years ago, I’d likely have had the tube taken out, because that’s what a certai…

Sadly I know a woman who had an abortion at 17 which ruined her fertility for life.

Re: The State of Indiana Has a Pregnancy Tracking App

#22

Post by tcmart14 »

withinboredom wrote: post #12
LatteLazy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bear in mind: If you can reasonably prove it wasn't you, you can likely go home within a day or two. If you can't, you get to personally spend a fortune on a lawyer and wait in jail and attend court for 6months to ultimately be vindicated but bankrupt and unemployed...

My father-in-law picked up his wife’s medication (narcotics) the day after she died from cancer. Just going through the motions… arrested and charged with fraud. He’s still waiting on his court date, nearly four years later. Thank god he was allowed to post bail, go to his wife’s funeral, and live his life while he waits. His daughter who was in the car was also charged just for being in the car (she had no idea what…

Wow, sorry to hear that about your father in law. It might not have even been a case of going through motions, but it could be a coping mechanism also. When people suffer a big loss, it can cause people to do weird things or actions without much thought. An example is, there is a grave site of a little boy who passed and his father had him buried with a sort of sun roof thing where light could get inside. His explanation was that his son was afraid of the dark. Before I was a parent, I would probably think, wow that is weird. Now that I am a parent, I think about that and go, "if I lost my 6 year old right now, there is no telling what I would do, that would probably be me."

Your last point. That is definitely an issue. Even if innocent, all the motions of waiting to go to trail can wreck someone's life. Try explaining to an employer I've got an upcoming court date for murder or theft and I swear I am innocent. So can you pretty please keep me employed while I wait 3 years for my trial?

Re: The State of Indiana Has a Pregnancy Tracking App

#23

Post by iakov »

midislack wrote: post #20
bilekas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a person who is against abortion, I fail to see a problem with this. Well obviously. > If you’re dumb enough to have a GovCorp tracking pod You realize its only a problem because the government has decided you cant choose what happens to you in the first place ? Whatever your opinions on abortion, it's incredibly you simple accept it as a 'given' that a gov app would be tracking you by default. That's not an OK…

What's the purpose of your smart phone? It's different than what you think!

You seem to have a fun answer to this. Please, enlighten us!

Re: The State of Indiana Has a Pregnancy Tracking App

#24

Post by [deleted] »

withinboredom wrote: post #13
gambiting wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lack the foresight or the awareness of how this pans out in some cases in other countries, and there is no reason to believe this wouldn't happen here - miscarriages happen(very often in fact!) and people have been accused of terminating their pregnancy and put in prison when in fact it could have just been a regular miscarriage. The risk you put yourself under from the judicial system(which is rewarded for prose…

Worse is how it can be weaponized by just downloading it to an emulator and using someone else’s information. It’s terrifying.

[deleted]

Re: The State of Indiana Has a Pregnancy Tracking App

#26

Post by _-david-_ »

isaacfrond wrote: post #8

Reminds of me of this charming example of United Statesian justice: Alabama woman charged after losing unborn baby in shooting https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48789836

That is a bit misleading. If a woman doesn't buckle her child's seat belt she can be charged even if somebody hits her car. In this case she started a violent argument with another person and it resulted in the death of her child.

Also, the article was from years ago. The charges were literally dropped despite an indictment from a grand jury.

Re: The State of Indiana Has a Pregnancy Tracking App

#27

Post by Dracophoenix »

mikkergp wrote: post #17
Dracophoenix wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is similar to a legal conundrum I once thought of: As a matter of rational jurisprudence, could a woman be prosecuted for drinking while pregnant? Or, at the very least, could either the state or the eventual child sue the mother for medical damages?

The research for pregnancy is also not great in general so it really leaves a wide scope of attack. For example, there are arguments that alcohol in moderation is not bad for the fetus. For alcohol to be bad you have to exceed the mothers ability to process it. One night of heavy drinking can cause severe harm, but one glass of wine a day may be able to be processed without issue(I am not a doctor, do not use this co…

I'm aware that medicine hasn't discovered a bright line between what's healthy and what would likely cause fetal alcohol syndrome or premature infant death. While any lawyer worth his salt would attack the lack of substantive medical literature, judges and legislators have now and in the past invented bright line tests that, while not wholly accurate, are "good enough" to account for a general decision (although I don't agree with that kind of reasoning myself).

In my example, I could have also used tobacco in place of alcohol, but the point I wished to address is whether the health of an imminent child trumps the rights of a mother or vice versa. If one accepts the affirmative position, then a woman does not have a right to her own body. If we accept the negative position, then the child will become a long-term burden on the medical system at the expense of others.

Re: The State of Indiana Has a Pregnancy Tracking App

#28

Post by riedel »

_-david-_ wrote: post #26
isaacfrond wrote: post #8

Reminds of me of this charming example of United Statesian justice: Alabama woman charged after losing unborn baby in shooting https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48789836

That is a bit misleading. If a woman doesn't buckle her child's seat belt she can be charged even if somebody hits her car. In this case she started a violent argument with another person and it resulted in the death of her child. Also, the article was from years ago. The charges were literally dropped despite an indictment from a grand jury.

As someone coming from a different ethical background I think your comment is complete inline with what would irritates me regarding the case (without considering the legal outcome). Putting an unborn on the same level as a child and to even blame anyone for triggering gun use while being unarmed themselves seems totally outside my reality.

It should be taken into account the article is not from US media. Typically in Europe it would probably not be considered misleading for the aforementioned reasons.

Re: The State of Indiana Has a Pregnancy Tracking App

#29

Post by _-david-_ »

riedel wrote: post #28
_-david-_ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a bit misleading. If a woman doesn't buckle her child's seat belt she can be charged even if somebody hits her car. In this case she started a violent argument with another person and it resulted in the death of her child. Also, the article was from years ago. The charges were literally dropped despite an indictment from a grand jury.

As someone coming from a different ethical background I think your comment is complete inline with what would irritates me regarding the case (without considering the legal outcome). Putting an unborn on the same level as a child and to even blame anyone for triggering gun use while being unarmed themselves seems totally outside my reality. It should be taken into account the article is not from US media. Typically i…

The majority of states in the US considers killing a pregnant woman the same as killing two people (assuming it doesn't happen during an abortion). This is consistent with the existing laws in most states.

Using a gun even if another person is unarmed can be justified. If somebody is trying to kill you, you have a right to defend yourself. If you have a gun then you can use it. If somebody was unarmed, trying to kill you, while you are holding a bat would you find it acceptable to use the bat to defend yourself? If you would defend yourself then a gun is no different. If you would not then we disagree on the concept of self defense and don't think we are going to agree on anything high level when we can't agree on the core principles.

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