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Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

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351–360 of 593 posts

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#351
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want my tax money filling the coffers of an American monopoly.

What market is Intel a monopoly in? They don't even have all of the x86 market. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/335650-amd-achieves-al...

If you want to buy a laptop/server than you pretty much have to choose between Intel and AMD. Thankfully, the world is slowly changing.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#352
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the main argument for global trade already in 1914. France was Germany's most important commercial partner, and vice-versa. All German rifles had stocks made from French walnut wood! All French locomotives had German-made tubing! This stupid mantra was repeated ad nauseam after 1991, too, with silly op-eds from Friedman and friends about how two countries with McDonald joints in both can't be at war and simi…

And in 1812 the UK was the US's biggest trading partner. And that created major tensions in the US, with New England almost threatening secession over it. But the war still happened.

The economic relationship between New England and the UK had historically been adversarial up to this point in time. New England was in direct competition with the UK, as both regions were industrial and educated. The monarchy did everything in their power to starve New England of the resources and tradesmen they needed to succeed. This is in contrast to the rest of the USA, which was supplying raw resources for industry.

Trade needs to be fair and mutually beneficial.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#353
post #171
post #2

Investing in local chip fabs is long overdue. These are incredibly important for geopolitical stability and should be distributed world-wide. We've centralized too many fabs in too few places in the search for low cost.

It is very important for national stability. A highly-interconnected global economy is arguably better at securing international stability.

The more interconnected the global economy is, the more single points of failure there are. No thanks, I'd rather society be more resilient.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#354
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasing trade with Russia is a good strategy. No need to follow America to WW3 or a new cold war.

Selling off allies in eastern europe to Russia is a good strategy? That's a good way to start WW3, on Russian side...

Increasing trade with Russia is the most effective way to avoid a war. When goods and services don't cross borders, armies will.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be the Middle East itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State To fight ISIS, it is mostly a joint effort of US + NATO + Allies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Joint_Task_Force_%E2%... . > The United States accounts for the vast majority of airstrikes (75–80%), with the remainder conducted by Australia, Canada, Denmark, France, Jordan, Belgium, the Netherlands, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the Uni…

This made me laugh. Isis was a direct consequence of American invasion of Iraq. You can't do what America did in Fallujah and not expect some kind of blowback.

> Since at latest 2004, a significant goal of the group has been the foundation of a Sunni Islamic state. Specifically, ISIL has sought to establish itself as a caliphate, an Islamic state led by a group of religious authorities under a supreme leader – the caliph – who is believed to be the successor to Prophet Muhammad.

Furthermore, it is worth studying the Arab Spring and what the underlying causes were: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring#Causes

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human rights is more than just political rights or speech. Hundreds of millions of Chinese lifted out of poverty is a huge win for human rights. When you're poor, you're not free. Having grown up with dirty streets and beggars, you can't possibly imagine how big a deal it is for me to see my hometown transforming into a modern metropolis, and how my grandparents-in-law (in a different city, in a rural area) finaly ha…

I don't totally disagree with you here. There's certainly something to be said about systems that make people happier than no system at all or the wrong system entirely, e.g. the soft power of surveillance being better than a total lack of enforcement of certain rules or heavy-handed and expensive policing efforts that don't work or make people any more free. That being said, I think there are limits to this philosop…

There may be limits to that philosophy (or any philosophy for that matter). There are no doubt inequalities in China. I just don't think the Xinjiang issue is representative of the problem you're thinking of, because the issue is heavily politicized by western mainstream media and governments, leaving out or mispresenting important facts (as is usually the case with China reporting), and/or representing allegations as final and proven facts even in the absence of evidence.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#357
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A connected world is not a guaranteed sufficient condition for peace. But that does not mean it's not a necessary condition for peace. One could argue that without economic interconnectivity, Europe could have fought WW1 much earlier, or would have had wars much more often.

While I ultimately believe you're correct (along with open borders and travel) I wish there were more rigorous proofs that this were the case. I think about the line in West Wing: "Free trade is essential for human rights...the end of that sentence is 'we hope because nothing else has worked.' ...Chinese political prisoners are going to be sewing soccer balls with their teeth whether we sell them cheeseburgers or not…

> wish there were more rigorous proofs

It's a deep area of research with conflicting results [1][2].

[1] https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.85...

[2] https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=oRbfdWw4ozUC&oi=...

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#358
post #270
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very important for national stability. A highly-interconnected global economy is arguably better at securing international stability.

That was the main argument for global trade already in 1914. France was Germany's most important commercial partner, and vice-versa. All German rifles had stocks made from French walnut wood! All French locomotives had German-made tubing! This stupid mantra was repeated ad nauseam after 1991, too, with silly op-eds from Friedman and friends about how two countries with McDonald joints in both can't be at war and simi…

If Taiwan didn't have the world's most advanced semiconducter industry, which China (and all other nations) rely on, China would have long ago attacked it.

So that's an easy example of how trade helps keeps peace.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#359
post #2

Investing in local chip fabs is long overdue. These are incredibly important for geopolitical stability and should be distributed world-wide. We've centralized too many fabs in too few places in the search for low cost.

Will it make much of a difference, though? Sure they can fabricate the chips, but a lot of the raw material needed will come from places like China.

In the very least I think it's easier to stockpile resources than chips.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competing with Intel is out of the question for any local chip company. But semiconductors is much much much more than high end CPUs. There’s totally a huge opportunity for local chip companies to grow. And having company like Intel may help, as people who work there will get a lot of know how that they can take to smaller local companies to help them grow.

> Competing with Intel is out of the question for any local chip company. Why? Intell lost the mobile, and is currently losing desktop/server. RISC-V is more promising each passing day. If India can do this, why can't Europe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31243674

> If India can do this Can do what exactly? AFAIK they haven't actually built anything yet. It's going to be years until they have anything competitive with current gen CPUs. And even if they build something useful there is no guarantee it won't end up like Russian Elbrus (way to expensive and 10 years behind Intel/ARM).

Intel never really had the mobile market and was seemingly never particularly interested in it. They are currently heavily pressured by AMD and ARM based cpus both in the consumer and server markets.

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