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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#531

Post by LordDragonfang »

vineyardmike wrote: post #503
kalleboo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's a better standard in the future the law can be changed, they didn't put this in the constitution. I've never had a phone with USB-C to compare, but I've had rotten luck with Lightning. I always get that one power pin that blackens and makes the cable unreliable.

> If there's a better standard in the future the law can be changed, they didn't put this in the constitution. Who will build the spec and research and then lobby Europe to change the law when no device uses it? The marketing of saying “this new spec is better… throw out EVERYTHING” won’t happen. What will happen is that the hot mess of a market that is the Asian market will grow and change and develop… and throw out…

>Who will build the spec and research and then lobby Europe to change the law when no device uses it? The marketing of saying “this new spec is better… throw out EVERYTHING” won’t happen.

Except that's basically what happened with USB-C. Micro-B was the standard for the EU, USB-C was developed and got approved, and now it's replacing micro-b as the standard.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#532

Post by cm2187 »

bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

In fact interoperability is what enables innovation, vs walled gardens.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#533

Post by X-Istence »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #515
vineyardmike wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the way, it’s been talked on HN a lot when USB c comes up, it you shouldn’t use those magnetic cables. The “magnetic disconnect” motion can cause arcing and static electricity that can theoretically damage the thing they’re plugged into. Especially if you leave the exposed pins on the device as you use it unplugged.

How did MagSafe historically handle this? The pogo pins may've been recessed, but they were still exposed to the elements.

There's communication between the device and the power brick. When the communication stops the power stops being delivered. Not sure how Apple is doing that these days with the MagSafe USB-C they have introduced on their laptops since you can plug the other end into any and all USB-C capable chargers.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#534

Post by Bayart »

leadingthenet wrote: post #506
bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

> Let's say the USB consortium releases USB-D with input from Apple, Google, and many other stakeholders [...] If you have to make such an argument, you've already lost. Innovation, particularly disruptive and / or breakthrough innovation, does not happen by committee, no matter how many times over history people tried deluding themselves into thinking that it does. So no, it's not fine.

Standards happen by committee. They're not disruptive and that's the point.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#535

Post by earthboundkid »

leadingthenet wrote: post #506
bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

> Let's say the USB consortium releases USB-D with input from Apple, Google, and many other stakeholders [...] If you have to make such an argument, you've already lost. Innovation, particularly disruptive and / or breakthrough innovation, does not happen by committee, no matter how many times over history people tried deluding themselves into thinking that it does. So no, it's not fine.

> Innovation, particularly disruptive and / or breakthrough innovation, does not happen by committee

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD#History

Never make an absolutist statement. They're always wrong. :-)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#536

Post by tshaddox »

vineyardmike wrote: post #476
stewx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with the Nintendo Switch is that Nintendo designed their own faulty USB-C charging implementation rather than merely using the reference design. It's not a failure of the spec, it's a failure to adhere to the spec. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803

Creating a spec that people don’t want, can’t, or can’t afford to adhere is a failure. I don’t recall ever seeing prior USB devices fail at adherence. The problem is that USB C is a massive spec with a lot of things that aren’t always needed in it (display, pd, high data speeds etc). You can either design your product to implement a lot more things (eg Macs) or skimp out and cause confusion (Switch). By breaking the…

Or maybe Nintendo just decided that they didn't care. I really don't see how any technical specification could be expected to physically prevent everyone in the world from deliberately implementing it partially or incorrectly. I don't doubt that USB-C might be technically complicated and confusing compared to alternatives and predecessors, but I find it very difficult to believe that Nintendo engineering gave it their best shot and simply couldn't manage to do it correctly.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#537

Post by iainmerrick »

qalmakka wrote: post #111
plonk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already use USB-C on macs and iPads. The only practical reason for Lightning to survive is existing iPhone accessories. It could have been on the way out even before this. Not sure the fight is worth picking.

> The only practical reason for Lightning to survive is existing iPhone accessories Do you have any vague idea how much money Apple makes from Lightning accessories? Every single thing that wants to use Lightning has to pay an Apple tax, and go through an incredibly cumbersome and expensive certification process. Letting that slip away from Apple's control means they lose a bit of control on their walled garden. Mean…

Why do new Macs and iPads have USB-C, then?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#538

Post by hda2 »

dundarious wrote: post #479
option wrote: post #472

Bureaucrats gonna bureaucrat … What will happen when a company (outside EU for obvious reasons) introduces clearly superior standard? The EU will wait for its bureaucracy to catch up?

There is no benefit to new standards coming out all the time in this domain. There is major benefit to standardizing for many years at a time.

The same was once believed in south Korea with regards to online commerce and ActiveX. Their law left their infrastructure rigid, less secure, and incompatible with the rest of the world when everyone moved on.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#539

Post by Majestic121 »

kansface wrote: post #466
Majestic121 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does not stop innovation like MagSafe : https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Adapter-Connector-Transfer-C... I'm not sure what you mean by 'unreasonably non-zero', but I've been sharing chargers between Macbook, XPS 13 and Thinkpad with no concern, + a charger from amazon. Some charger are less powerful than others, so charge is not always as quick, but in real life it does not matter : it's still charging fast enough…

You shouldn’t use a lower wattage charger so it goes.

I have seen it in some forums as well, but do you have any explanation links about why that may be ?

I have trouble finding relevant information that is not some random dude on a forum speaking very confidently one way or another without much data to back it up, and I don't see why that would cause any harm other than charging more slowly, eventually to the point of discharging if you consume a lot of power (which is a pretty tolerable downside).

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#540

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

tshaddox wrote: post #536
vineyardmike wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating a spec that people don’t want, can’t, or can’t afford to adhere is a failure. I don’t recall ever seeing prior USB devices fail at adherence. The problem is that USB C is a massive spec with a lot of things that aren’t always needed in it (display, pd, high data speeds etc). You can either design your product to implement a lot more things (eg Macs) or skimp out and cause confusion (Switch). By breaking the…

Or maybe Nintendo just decided that they didn't care. I really don't see how any technical specification could be expected to physically prevent everyone in the world from deliberately implementing it partially or incorrectly. I don't doubt that USB-C might be technically complicated and confusing compared to alternatives and predecessors, but I find it very difficult to believe that Nintendo engineering gave it thei…

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