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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#471

Post by peoplefromibiza »

ericd wrote: post #322
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not how innovation works Yes, exactly, this is how standardization works. Who cares about innovation in charging plugs form factor? Innovations should be innovative enough to get around the plug. Light bulbs have been the same for at least 80 years and it didn't stop innovation. Why do people are so scared about things that are only hypothetical, while this solves a real issue?

Light bulb sockets are actually a great example for the downsides of standardization, because they’re super suboptimal for LED bulbs, and are a large part of the reason for the transformers on many of the new bulbs burning out way before their rated lifetime. A better LED socket would provide better heatsinking/dissipation opportunities. But it was pretty good for many decades.

How many more LED bulbs have been sold thanks to the fact that people don't have to replace the socket, just the bulb?

Having a retro compatible socket drove the adoption of more energy efficient bulbs.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#473

Post by peoplefromibiza »

sokoloff wrote: post #406
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not how innovation works Yes, exactly, this is how standardization works. Who cares about innovation in charging plugs form factor? Innovations should be innovative enough to get around the plug. Light bulbs have been the same for at least 80 years and it didn't stop innovation. Why do people are so scared about things that are only hypothetical, while this solves a real issue?

If this standardization happened in 1999, would we now all be walking around with the original [large] USB-B or DC barrel jacks on our phones? (Those were the standardized connectors of the day.) Do we believe given the track record of a new connector being introduced more frequently than once every 5 years just within the USB standardization process, that we've somehow reached the end of that road in practical terms…

we have only standardized the need to supply one type of connector, nothing stops USB from evolving.

I still use Ethernet at work, it's connected to the thunderbolt port through an adaptor.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#474

Post by smoldesu »

miohtama wrote: post #443
stewx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with the Nintendo Switch is that Nintendo designed their own faulty USB-C charging implementation rather than merely using the reference design. It's not a failure of the spec, it's a failure to adhere to the spec. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803

My Macbook Pro charger charges Nintendo Switch, so maybe this was fixed later? Switch is 2017 device.

I have a launch-model Switch, and it still has trouble charging even on latest firmware. It's very possible that this is one of the "Mariko" fixes; Nintendo silently released a refresh of the Nintendo Switch before the OLED model was announced, dubbed the Mariko models. These had a number of changes, including but not limited to:

- New, more secure boot sequence

- Updated Nvidia Tegra board

- ~20% better battery life

- Reinforced chassis design

It seems likely that they took the opportunity with Mariko to redesign their charging ICs to be more tolerant. I heartily recommend looking up some of the more subtle differences between the models too, it's really interesting to see how Nintendo updated a mass-market product without anyone really noticing.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#475

Post by dundarious »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #131
torginus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with lightning is that the springs that fix the plug in place are on the port, not the cable. This is the part that wears out, and when it does, the port will need to be replaced, not the cable.

How often does this happen in practice, though? My 6 year-old iPhone that I plug and unplug a bunch of times a day still keeps the plugs in very snuggly. They basically don't move. And I've pulled on the connector many, many times, by stepping on the cord and pulling the phone up. Contrast this with my 2 month-old laptop in which the usb-c cables move around, even though it spends 90% on the time plugged in. --- Edit…

I had the same issue with the same toothpick solution, then 1 year later the spring really did fail and I essentially had to buy a new phone.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#476

Post by vineyardmike »

stewx wrote: post #11
maccard wrote: post #7

The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. As an example, my Apple 96W USB-C charger doesn't charge my nintendo switch. The cable that came with my phone doesn't charge said fully Mac when used with the 96w charger. There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices until you realise they don't work. This is going back to the dc…

The issue with the Nintendo Switch is that Nintendo designed their own faulty USB-C charging implementation rather than merely using the reference design. It's not a failure of the spec, it's a failure to adhere to the spec. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803

Creating a spec that people don’t want, can’t, or can’t afford to adhere is a failure.

I don’t recall ever seeing prior USB devices fail at adherence.

The problem is that USB C is a massive spec with a lot of things that aren’t always needed in it (display, pd, high data speeds etc). You can either design your product to implement a lot more things (eg Macs) or skimp out and cause confusion (Switch). By breaking the standard, people effectively have to buy your charger or cables to know it’ll work. If I have to either buy a high end product or buy cables and chargers only from the original brand, we aren’t really any better off with this.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#477

Post by sokoloff »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #473
sokoloff wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this standardization happened in 1999, would we now all be walking around with the original [large] USB-B or DC barrel jacks on our phones? (Those were the standardized connectors of the day.) Do we believe given the track record of a new connector being introduced more frequently than once every 5 years just within the USB standardization process, that we've somehow reached the end of that road in practical terms…

we have only standardized the need to supply one type of connector, nothing stops USB from evolving. I still use Ethernet at work, it's connected to the thunderbolt port through an adaptor.

Is it better if my phone has the mandated-by-[hypothetical]-1999-law original USB-B and a new-fangled USB-C?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#478

Post by mattnewton »

kaba0 wrote: post #76
glogla wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Portless phone would be very unpopular (no fast charging), USB-C would be very popular. Apple would not choose to be unpopular just to watch the world hate them. The same Apple which removed headphone jack so they can sell more dongles and wireless headphones? I can see them making portless phone just out of pure spite (maybe having cheaper version with port and not selling that in EU).

The headphone jack did take up a considerable amount of space and made waterproofing quite a bit harder. It't not like it was not a well-considered tradeoff. Companies don't work based on spite, but based on profit.

The existence of waterproof Samsung phones of the same thickness seems to disprove this line for me; it’s not a coincidence that AirPods were released at the same time. Removing the headphone jack and was at least in part about the upsell to wireless headphones apple also makes.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#479

Post by dundarious »

option wrote: post #472

Bureaucrats gonna bureaucrat … What will happen when a company (outside EU for obvious reasons) introduces clearly superior standard? The EU will wait for its bureaucracy to catch up?

There is no benefit to new standards coming out all the time in this domain. There is major benefit to standardizing for many years at a time.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#480

Post by petre »

lm28469 wrote: post #66
frizlab wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn’t needed. There are no benefits of usb-c over lightning for the usage it has. It’s not an evolution it’s a change.

It's a long term plan for a universal system. The benefit is very clear, just a few days ago a friend asked to charge his iphone at my place, I don't own lightning cables, everybody owns ubs-c cables

At least I won't have the problem of trying to plug a lightning cable into my USB-C phone in the dark.
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