Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except if you use Lightning. It just works.
Because it's not an open standard any only support low-power devices. If we gimped USB-C to only support 5 volts, it would work everywhere too.
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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices
441–450 of 1001 posts
Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices
#442Earlier quoted context omitted.
It does stop innovation in things like lightning and MagSafe. And it doesn’t fix the multiple charger issue either, because so many manufacturers don’t adhere to the USB-C standard that any combination of charger + cable + device has an unreasonably non-zero chance of not working or even damaging the device. So in the end we still have to have multiple chargers, but now we can roll the dice on which one works with or…
> So in the end we still have to have multiple chargers, but now we can roll the dice on which one works with or damages which device because they all use the same connector. Doesn't really matter. Just charge with any charger that's USB-C compatible. If it breaks the machine just RMA it. It didn't adhere to the spec so file a complain to the EU commission in charge of these charging standards as well. Wait what was…
And when that happens I lose all the data on the device and access to a device for months at a time.
And all I gained from this is that I will have to buy a cable separately from the device itself now.
But hey, at least I'll only get 5 new cables in a decade instead of 10! Such incredible savings.
Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices
#443The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. As an example, my Apple 96W USB-C charger doesn't charge my nintendo switch. The cable that came with my phone doesn't charge said fully Mac when used with the 96w charger. There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices until you realise they don't work. This is going back to the dc…
The issue with the Nintendo Switch is that Nintendo designed their own faulty USB-C charging implementation rather than merely using the reference design. It's not a failure of the spec, it's a failure to adhere to the spec. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803
My Macbook Pro charger charges Nintendo Switch, so maybe this was fixed later? Switch is 2017 device.
Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Just pick a couple of those USB-C docks on the market and check how many are actually working for you. 1) How is it the spec's fault that random OEMs go to extreme cost cutting measures in order to price dump themselves to the bottom by not following the spec? Of course they won't work properly. But again, for the 100th time, that's not the specs fault that manufacturers actively choose to ignore it. If a driver cho…
Well, if a spec has no validation procedure, compatibility enforcement or certification, what’s even the point? If the switch isn’t actually working as intended they shouldn’t be allowed to call it usb-c. There should be some minimum mandatory requirements. I haven’t studied these spec, but if there exists a min spec to qualify to call yourself USB and the switch case isn’t covered, OR, there’s no minimum spec, it IS…
The USB consortium seemingly refuses to do anything that would hamper adoption, even if it's bad for consumers. They could make a list of icons that products can put on if they support. So a cable that supports 15W charging would indicate it with a little icon on the product or packaging. Then mandate a testing procedure, where failure to follow it or lying about the results is trademark infringement.
Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices
#445Alright, so before more folks freak out even more at this, there are a number of knee-jerk reactions that could be mitigated by reading up on this a bit before tossing thunderbolts.
The main reasoning for this is to cut down on waste from incompatible chargers. This will bring charging more in line with other standardized products such as AC power cords, twisted pair networking, SD cards, M.2 SSDs, and all of those wonderful things that come from standards that everyone follows.
Can no one continue to sell charging products for stuff that's already out there? Obviously you can continue to support existing stuff. This rule applies to power drawing products, not the chargers (products sold in 2024 must charge from USB-C, but you can continue selling non-USB-C chargers for older stuff already in consumer hands).
Will it stop innovation? Of course not. New innovations can be brought forth in the same way they are with the other standards mentioned above: developed in a harmonised manner, respecting the objectives of full interoperability (in this case led by the USB-IF organisation).
Is USB-C a complicated standard? Yep, but then again most companies manage to produce working and interoperable stuff just fine.
Are there companies that break the standard? Yes of course - there are always bad actors and careless implementations. But consumer laws will prevent them from selling their crap in the European market. This is what standards enforcement is for (the CE marking, for example).
Are HNers going to look for extreme and unlikely cases and anecdata to ride their hobby horses on this? It wouldn't be HN without it!
Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices
#446Earlier quoted context omitted.
EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…
I'm not a citizen of the EU, so your various centrally-planned interventions in the world economy affect me without any possibility of representation. It leaves me hoping your economy becomes much smaller so Asia can start ignoring it. Or reform I guess, the vote is yours, not mine.
How is this different from the American FAA dictating that all aeroplane toilets have to have ashtrays whist at the same time banning smoking on flights[1]?
Should Europeans start hoping the US economy fails so that then FAA has less influence?[3]
Really I don't think this is something that really matters in the grand scheme of things. USB-C is a good enough standard and I don't see Apple coming out with some great new alternative.
From my perspective I have loads of broken Lightning cables but no broken USB-C ones. Also if something is going to break I'd rather the springs be in the cheap cable than the expensive phone socket as with Lightning.
1. Now you might think it's for people who break the smoking rule to have somewhere to put out their fags[2] but the "innovative" solution to that would be the sink.
2. You know that I know you know that's slang for cigarette, so stick to the point at hand please. :P
3. Just in case that's not blindingly obvious, the answer is NO, that would be terrible for everyone involved including both Europeans and Americans.
Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices
#447Imagine they had made this dumb decision back when Micro USB was the standard. We would have never gotten anything better than Micro USB. Governments shouldn't be in the market of mandating that a specific technical standards must be used as it freezes innovation.
Also purely in terms of usability, the Apple thunderbolt plug is easier to clean and less error prone on insertion as it self-centers.
Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices
#448Earlier quoted context omitted.
Granted this isn't the fault of the connector, but USB-C is certainly a mess. My Nintendo Switch uses USB-C charging, but I can't use my MacBook charger for it. There are different cables, ratings, etc. "make everything USB-C" is asking for confusion. As much as I hate having a different cable for every device, at least when I pick up a (Apple-branded) lightning cable, I know it will work correctly for my iPhone.
Isn't the switch a notorious outlier and oddball with respect to its usb-c implementation though? I think it's more just that Nintendo screwed up one product than the standard is bad.
It's certainly the most popular example of poor implementation. But one could argue that USB-C isn't even implemented and they just used the connector/form factor for their cable. I recall the RPI4 also having issues early on with power over USB-C.
But that's precisely my problem with this - if we're forcing every device to merely adopt a USB-C port, that does nothing to ensure they're actually using USB-C specifications or interoperable. Game System X and Phone Y may only work with USB-C cables/chargers X and Y, which satisfy the requirement without fixing the compatibility problem.
Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices
#449What's interesting is that nearly all of my recent electronics purchases have used USB-C. Headphones, thermal printer, neck-cooler, rechargable screwdriver - all USB-C. What's weird are the few things which don't. Amazon Alexa use a barrel charger. Brand new HP printer has the old square style USB plug. Pulse Oximeter user micro-USB. So C is certainly getting there. Appearing in cheap and expensive products. And, I'm…
>> What's interesting is that nearly all of my recent electronics purchases have used USB-C.
I've started noticing this recently. It's taken longer than I thought but the only devices remaining I have that I need to search for cables for are my iPhone/Apple Watch/old iPod. Everything else, including laptops, I usually have a USB-C charger already plugged in and ready to go no matter what room I'm in.
It makes sense that there should be a standard for this, just like we do (although it varies by country) for our plugs.
Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices
#450So every upgrading iPhone user in the world needs to discard every single charging device they own, including expensive multi-device chargers like phone+watch. In the short-term this clearly produces _more_ e-waste. I wonder if anyone made an estimate of the break-even time here. One year? Ten? Will everyone be discarding their chargers and switching to wireless before break-even is achieved?
How much money does it cost for the USB-D spec to get approved by the EU if/when that is released? (How much did the USB-C industry groups spend on lobbying to get this done)? This seems like a much less significant concern but I am curious what order of magnitude we are dealing with here.
This legislation would have been great twenty years ago when there were lots of proprietary plugs on phones, but it seems much less substantial of an issue now in my experience.