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Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

electronicsweekly.com

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Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#191

Post by blackoil »

unfocused wrote: post #104

It's going to be a while before we are not depending on China. If you look at this 2020 Apple List of Suppliers: https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/pdf/Apple-Supp... you can see the large variety of companies they they rely on for manufacturing. Plugging this into Excel, you get the following distribution: Country Count: China 156 Japan 40 US 30 Taiwan 26 South Korea 23 Vietnam 21 Malaysia 15 Philippines 1…

It is more complicated, all 9 companies in India are subsidiary on Chinese companies. Same is true for lot of companies in Vietnam, Malaysia. This gives diversification in case of a regional epidemic or natural disaster, but how will they behave in case of a geo-political crisis.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#192

Post by colejohnson66 »

_fat_santa wrote: post #152
baybal2 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will not do much with Taiwan being a single source for semiconductor manufacturing supplies. Much of critical blockers for chemicals, consumables, materials will still be in Taiwan just because the semi industry is that huge there. All 300mm fabs working outside of Taiwan are just few shipments of consumables away from stalling all the time. When Russia attacks Ukraine, the 3rd world is fucked. When China attack…

> When China attacks Taiwan, the 1st world is fucked. China would be shooting themselves in the foot by invading, because it would equally fuck them. I've read in may places that as soon as China invades, Taiwan will blow up all the fabs and supporting supply lines. So even if China takes control of Taiwan, the semiconductor industry will be a smoldering pile of nothingness. This article[1] does a great job in descri…

I've heard the "TSMC self-destruct" story a lot, but I haven't found a source. All I can find are people repeating the claim. Is there a source anywhere?

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#193

Post by arlort »

jeffbee wrote: post #9
mmastrac wrote: post #2

Investing in local chip fabs is long overdue. These are incredibly important for geopolitical stability and should be distributed world-wide. We've centralized too many fabs in too few places in the search for low cost.

Why is the local fab specifically important? They're still going to fly the wafers to Malaysia or wherever for packaging, right? And the tools and chemicals will all be made elsewhere, won't they? It's not as simple as having a steady supply of apples from your local orchard.

They're also creating a packaging center in Italy

https://gamingnews.cyou/here-is-intels-plan-for-europe-a-pac...

And an R&D center in France

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/eu-new...

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#194

Post by qiskit »

aliswe wrote: post #178
qiskit wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

wow, first time on HN ive seen both arguments and counterarguments this ridiculous. but wait, what am i saying, they are claims devoid of proof, references or even arguments.

We invaded germany in 1940s and we've been occupying it ever since. You know like how the soviet union invaded germany in the 1940s. But then they eventually left. We didn't. We are still there. Hopefully germany will become a free nation one day. We talk so much freedom and sovereignty and yet we deprive so many of freedom and sovereignty.

> they are claims devoid of proof, references or even arguments.

It's basic history. Do you need references for ww2 and the occupation of germany? You are only responding like this because it's the obvious truth which you don't want to confront.

Imagine if china or russia was occupying germany and forced them to subsidize chinese or russian companies.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#195

Post by mytailorisrich »

sofixa wrote: post #177
mytailorisrich wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Following the merger between Peugeot and Fiat-Chrysler the new company (Stellantis) is also headquartered in the Netherlands, though I believe that Fiat-Chrysler already was. That's a recurring issue for France because they are not business-friendly. It's not even a question of being a tax-heaven (the Netherlands are not) but simply to make everything unduly complex and costly. We've also seen that following Brexit:…

> but simply to make everything unduly complex and costly I disagree with that characterisation, doing business in France is not that complex. Amsterdam has a giant advantage though - the English language is widely spoken and accepted, which really isn't the case in Paris. If an international organisation is looking to move from London, Amsterdam makes much more sense than Paris, even if we disregard the taxes side o…

Not that complex... Right.

It's complex and costly enough enough that France keeps losing out. It's ridiculous, really, because there is no good reason for this. It's a mix of lack of self-awareness and ideology.

France is not an isolated case, though. Many countries are like that, sadly.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#196

Post by hammock »

baybal2 wrote: post #16
mmastrac wrote: post #2

Investing in local chip fabs is long overdue. These are incredibly important for geopolitical stability and should be distributed world-wide. We've centralized too many fabs in too few places in the search for low cost.

This will not do much with Taiwan being a single source for semiconductor manufacturing supplies. Much of critical blockers for chemicals, consumables, materials will still be in Taiwan just because the semi industry is that huge there. All 300mm fabs working outside of Taiwan are just few shipments of consumables away from stalling all the time. When Russia attacks Ukraine, the 3rd world is fucked. When China attack…

> semiconductor manufacturing supplies

Which supplies specifically? Aren’t the big ones just silicon and solvents?

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#197

Post by DSingularity »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #10

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

That’s called interest on the Marshall plan.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#198

Post by Sakos »

dv_dt wrote: post #182
Sakos wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your mistake is believing that financial interdependence is what prevents conflict instead of, say, shared values, political interdependence, cultural exchange, etc. Things that aren't money bind countries together far, far, far stronger than a stack of money ever could. That's the biggest reason why trying to bind Russia financially failed, and why it's been failing with China for the past 20 years. Ideology is such…

I don't think financial interdependence is exclusively what prevents conflict. Shared values and cultural exchanges develop when you spend more time interacting, and financial connections are one excuse to spend more time interacting. I actually wish more nations provided for a youth international travel trip as part of a high school post grad type public benefit. I think it would do a lot for long term peace in the…

> financial connections are one excuse to spend more time interacting.

And it's not sufficient. Most people will buy products imported from China without ever interacting with Chinese people (or their culture) and Chinese will export products to the rest of the world without ever interacting with foreign cultures and their ideas and viewpoints. Tell me how a gas pipeline between Russia and Germany helped build ties between the citizens of either country, aside from the politicians who got rich off of it and turned into apologists.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#200

Post by hnusersarelame »

aliswe wrote: post #178
qiskit wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

wow, first time on HN ive seen both arguments and counterarguments this ridiculous. but wait, what am i saying, they are claims devoid of proof, references or even arguments.

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