Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

electronicsweekly.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 593 posts

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#81

Post by amelius »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #40
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #10

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

It’s all interconnected, Intel fabs are worthless without ASML, you can think of Intel as almost like a general contractor at this point pulling capabilities from everywhere.

ASML should demand 30% of profits, like Apple does with its App Store.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#82

Post by raverbashing »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #10

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

> domestic semi companies (NXP, ST, Ericsson, Nordic, Infineon, Bosch, AMS, etc.) are only competing for relatively low margin chips with high competition

Then maybe they should compete? (though those are not small companies - and with most products that are not as popular with Intel but are popular in other areas)

I think they missed the ARM boat, possibly. But they should go and ask for a slice of that money.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#83

Post by DocTomoe »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #10

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

> please name me another EU company

There isn't any. That's because EU taxes and regulations make running a large-scale business less attractive - and because there really is no market for another big-chip manufacturer; if you want to break into that segment (even if it was a 'fair' market), the only way to compete is on the price, and that China can do better.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#84

Post by april_22 »

dontbenebby wrote: post #13
throw457 wrote: post #4

Just wait 10 years until we get rid of it again like we did with AMD and Infineon.

If they're willing to build a lot of processors rather than add dangerous features to use one chip or core or whatever maybe they can make it multiples of ten years this time ;-) Wenn sie bereit sind, viele Prozessoren zu bauen, anstatt gefährliche Funktionen hinzuzufügen, um einen Chip oder Kern oder was auch immer zu verwenden, können sie dieses Mal vielleicht ein Vielfaches von zehn Jahren schaffen ;-)

Yes, Bosch just built a huge factory in Saxony

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#85

Post by jakobov »

waterlaw wrote: post #43

Intel spent tens of billions on stock buybacks and now they're getting subsidies to build fabs. Why does the middle class taxpayer have to bail everyone out, with lower living standards due to taxation and inflation.

It's about national security. A fab is necessary for national security

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#86

Post by raxxorraxor »

DeathArrow wrote: post #48

Why can't everyone get a help from the German government to start a business? I want to grow cucumbers, so it would be nice for Germany to pay to help me start a cucumber growing business.

Ensuring a strategic supply against encroaching French cornichons?

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#88

Post by coffeeblack »

ChemSpider wrote: post #33
jeffbee wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the local fab specifically important? They're still going to fly the wafers to Malaysia or wherever for packaging, right? And the tools and chemicals will all be made elsewhere, won't they? It's not as simple as having a steady supply of apples from your local orchard.

That part is solved: (1) German BASF is one of the manufactures for "semiconductor chemicals". (2) More important: Getting parts from Malaysia (etc) is no issue as I don't think they plan to attack any neighboring countries in the next decade. Also, they did not start a trade boycott against Lithuania just over the name of an trade office.

If there is a conflict with China, maritime routes will become much less reliable than they are now, after 75+ years of peace and 30+ years of a unipolar international system.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#89

Post by april_22 »

alaricus wrote: post #5
outside1234 wrote: post #3

Honestly, this is good policy. We can't have our complete global supply chain held over our heads when China goes and does something crazy inevitably.

This is a very bad policy. We should instead invest in local companies, not a American monopoly like Intel.

Yes, also at 18Bn it is a HUGE factory ehich will make the area more attractive for smaller players. I think and hope they know what they are doing

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#90

Post by dhoe »

throw457 wrote: post #4

Just wait 10 years until we get rid of it again like we did with AMD and Infineon.

This is spot on and I feel a lot of the comments here miss this context. Germany has tried this before and it was a gigantic waste - they build a fab somewhere at massive cost, claim it as victory because it's "invested locally", zero ecosystem materializes around it, and ten years later the fab is obsolete and shuts down. It helps nobody except the chip company.
Post reply on HN