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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#341

Post by alligatorplum »

I am still on the fence on this. On one hand this is a good pro consumer move while also being environmentally friendly but this will likely hinder innovation in the field. If a new way charger standard was found which was a fraction of the cost of USBC and double the speed, the fact that companies would be forced to still use USBC is tough.

I also found this tidbit pretty funny.

> The legislation has been under development for more than a decade, but an agreement on its scope was reached this morning following negotiations between different EU bodies.

> The EU denies this will be the case, and says it will update the legislation as new technology is developed. > “Don’t think we’re setting something in stone for the next 10 years,” said Breton at the press conference.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#342

Post by mattmaroon »

mrtksn wrote: post #209
jeroenhd wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA all modern electric cars also use the normal standard, except for Tesla. There were a few early offshoots and Tesla had good reason to come up with their own connector initially (no other plug could transfer that much power!) but these days everything has been pretty much consolidated. For charging your car at Tesla chargers that haven't been upgraded to the standard yet there are adaptors available from T…

There's this thing called Brussels effect where manufacturers pick to default to EU requirements instead of having different supply chains unless they absolutely have to. EU don't like the idea of manufacturers locking down their users through different standards. EU is a densely populated place with limited natural resources and free space, therefore cables piling up or 10 different types of charging stations are pr…

I don't really get this trash argument even though I hear it over and over. I throw away a higher volume of stuff in one or two average days than all the wall warts and phone cables I've ever owned probably add up to. I've been on smart phones since Blackberry, and I don't think all of the chargers and cables I've used over the two decades combined add up to a single trash can full.

Interoperability sure.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#343

Post by mmis1000 »

mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

> Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation?

Usb typec wire from 65A(non e-marked wire) to 240A(the latest standardized e-marked wire) uses literally the same plug.

Typec is the header but not the protocol. Even China phone vendor's proprietary high speed charging protocol use typec wire. And Intel's tb4 wire also use a type c wire. (the bandwidth of tb4 is definitely overkill for every phone ever made on the world for now)

Force use of typec header and baseline charging protocol prevent innovation is just bs consider this didn't even prevent apple from making a MFA e-marked typec cable.(Or they don't want this to pass because they actually want to do this again?)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#344

Post by HPsquared »

mrtksn wrote: post #233
samatman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…

Being densely-populated makes it easier to have a range of different plugs, since there will be a range of alternatives, and you'll be able to find the right one for you nearby.

Consider the opposite of a sparsely-populated region, where the next charging point may be 50 miles away. In that case, having a random hodge-podge of competing connectors could have actual consequences.

In practice though, there is not much of an effect either way. All parties have an interest in interoperability: car owners would have adapter to hand if this was a common problem, and charging stations would make themselves available to as many paying customers as possible.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#346

Post by kube-system »

dpratt wrote: post #324
bluGill wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The constitution gives US congress the right to set standards for weights and measures, which unless you use a very strict reading says they can set charging standards. I wish they would. Tesla (and Nissan) as early movers 10 years ago can be forgiven for not adopting a standard charger, but now they need to update to the standard. (IIRC both are planning on it)

If by “strict reading” you mean “any reading at all”, I would agree. I’m not sure how the legal power to say “the unit of mass called the ‘gram’ shall be defined as the mass of a cube of pure water, one centimeter on each side” allows you to say “anybody that manufactures a phone must include the following physical and logical features.” If you go off that definition, you’re basically ceding pretty much unlimited pow…

For phones, you’re right.

For cars, we have public metering devices that measure units of stuff and charge money. This makes it fall into the category of metering devices used in trade. And we do regulate those almost universally. You can’t just put a different shape nozzle on a gas pump, for instance.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#347

Post by taylodl »

samatman wrote: post #211
mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

Different countries already have many different rules for autos. That's why it's difficult to be a world-wide auto manufacturer: you have to comply with so many different rules from different countries. That's just the cost of doing business and has been for decades.

If Apple believes USB-C is really that bad (which I don't think they do) - then they have the option of creating a handset only for sale in Europe or they can remove all charging ports and go wireless charging. I bet they go with USB-C charging and wireless charging.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#348

Post by scarface74 »

DannyBee wrote: post #302
scarface74 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because regulators are the best people to design technical products.

They aren't designing anything, they mandate an overall requirement - "You must all use the same charge port". This is no different than any other customer - they are just representing the overall customers who would otherwise not have enough power or voice to achieve what they want. Also - if you don't want your industry regulated, maybe don't make a mess of it? Regulators rarely pay attention to things that are wor…

If this had gone through the first time, we would have all been stuck with micro usb.

Customers can choose to buy Android phones.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#349

Post by tinus_hn »

ericd wrote: post #294
mrtksn wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can copy the US if the cable freedom gives birth to superior cables on the long run. EU stuff is't written on stone, it changes as it needs to. I guess In Europe we kind of like the idea of being able to overthrow the people in power if they screw us too much. It's much more socially acceptable to burn cars and occupy streets and decapitate politicians than shooting CEO's when you are really not happy with the way…

You’re really ignoring the amount of inertia that a deployed fleet of cars creates. You can’t just change standards with the snap of a finger once there are 10M cars in the field with it, once that happens, you’re stuck with that standard for probably decades, as the downsides of changing it become much more acute than the potential upsides.

All aside, it’s pretending ‘we’ as civilians have any kind of influence in what the EU does. In reality it’s just an opaque process ran by politicians where 99% of the electorate has no idea whatsoever how they got there or even what party they belong to.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#350

Post by rand49an »

kube-system wrote: post #296
aiisjustanif wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if we had this outlook towards plugs in houses in the US. Standardization is underrated.

Funny, because all of North America uses the NEMA standard and the EU uses a bunch of different plugs.

Probably why they are more conscious it's a problem then.
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