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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#321

Post by eddieroger »

micv wrote: post #218
nuccy wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A surprise for me was that lightning is only USB2 and one-sided, so at any moment it is plugged half of the pins is unused. Additionally it has exposed wires, in case of charger failure, USB-C provides a better protection.

Some Lightning devices use both sides to get USB3 speeds. I really have no idea why Apple have left other devices at USB2 performance. It doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me.

Because what's their incentive to do better? Most people only use the port for charging, which has no data speed, and the number of people who sync via wire is lower than ever and declining. USB2 was good enough for a long time, and it's not like it changed.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#322

Post by ericd »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #224
peeters wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are welcome to change it going forward, they just have to agree and consolidate. That's not how innovation works. What motivation would they have to change it if all your competitors will change it step? This only hurts consumers.

> That's not how innovation works Yes, exactly, this is how standardization works. Who cares about innovation in charging plugs form factor? Innovations should be innovative enough to get around the plug. Light bulbs have been the same for at least 80 years and it didn't stop innovation. Why do people are so scared about things that are only hypothetical, while this solves a real issue?

Light bulb sockets are actually a great example for the downsides of standardization, because they’re super suboptimal for LED bulbs, and are a large part of the reason for the transformers on many of the new bulbs burning out way before their rated lifetime. A better LED socket would provide better heatsinking/dissipation opportunities.

But it was pretty good for many decades.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#323

Post by sva_ »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #314
seu wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? Innovation is overrated. And standardising is not blocking. What we need more urgently than innovation is to stop creating so much waste, extracting so much stuff from the earth, and in general reduce consumption. Standardisation accomplishes at least some of that.

Are really the non-standard cables to blame here? How about non-removable batteries and unrepairable phones? Many phones would be still ok, but the non-removable (cheaply) battery means that they get replaced prematurely, because the cost of replacement is overlapping the price of a low/mid tear phones. Back in the day, you pulled the back cover off, put a new batter in, and the phone was as good as new. Same with ot…

Probably several things. They're working on the battery-issue: https://repair.eu/news/the-european-parliament-calls-for-rem...

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#324

Post by dpratt »

bluGill wrote: post #159
mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

The constitution gives US congress the right to set standards for weights and measures, which unless you use a very strict reading says they can set charging standards. I wish they would. Tesla (and Nissan) as early movers 10 years ago can be forgiven for not adopting a standard charger, but now they need to update to the standard. (IIRC both are planning on it)

If by “strict reading” you mean “any reading at all”, I would agree.

I’m not sure how the legal power to say “the unit of mass called the ‘gram’ shall be defined as the mass of a cube of pure water, one centimeter on each side” allows you to say “anybody that manufactures a phone must include the following physical and logical features.” If you go off that definition, you’re basically ceding pretty much unlimited power to the government.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#325

Post by marssaxman »

mrtksn wrote: post #233
samatman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…

> When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions.

Most of us are not billionaires.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#326

Post by lesuorac »

ospzfmbbzr wrote: post #311

I'm all for stopping Apple,Sony, or other nasty megacorps from including deliberately 'unique' cables that cost a fortune to replace -- but when the bureaucrats get involved in anything, particularily technology, it frequently ends up being a disaster. This is for a few reasons not the least of which is that the types who are in government are not the types who can make anything useful let alone novel. Even worse the…

And that's why the EU in 2009 got all the companies to agree to make a common charger [1]. However, then the companies didn't so that left the Gov 2 choices: Ignore the idea of a common charger or force a common charger.

[1]: https://www.macrumors.com/guide/eu-charging-standard-proposa...

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#327

Post by criddell »

davoneus wrote: post #242
criddell wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB is universal, but there are so many variations that it's not very clear. Does the EU mandate say which USB-C modes and variations have to be supported?

Too many get caught up in the "USB-C" connector, and forget about the modes and power delivery. That said, AFAICT the May 2022 revision states (pg 6): "the devices should incorporate the USB Power Delivery (USB PD) standard (as described in the European standard EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021) and ensure that any additional charging protocols allow for full USB PD functionality (new annex Ia, part I)." Then the referenced: "E…

This brings up an issue that Carl Malamud at public.resource.org has been fighting. The EU directive references a standard that costs $300 if you want a copy. You shouldn't have to pay to know your laws.

If the EU is going to reference a standard owned by somebody else, they should purchase a license that allows them to publicly post the entire standard (AFAIK, they haven't done that). Or they could pass laws that say any standards referenced by law lose their copyright status. This would be a type of eminent domain for intellectual property.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#328

Post by netheril96 »

kingsleyopara wrote: post #108

This all seems pretty short sighted. Great in the short term (I want a USB-C iPhone and for everything today to be USB-C) but will surely be a pain going forward - where would USB-C be if this policy had standardised on micro USB earlier? Some will say wireless is the future but I’m not convinced. Maybe the best solution would be to have this policy expire after a certain number of years?

I blame Apple on this (as an iPhone user). If they had adopted USB-C sooner, or if they had invented something much better than USB-C, this regulation would never pass.

Right now, the charging speed of iPhone is way less than Android phone sold in China. Here most phones charge at 50W+, some at 120W, several times faster than iPhone. While the limitation is not because of Lightning, it is hard to maintain a straight face when Apple insists that they use Lightning because of technical advantage.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#329

Post by seanmcdirmid »

nuccy wrote: post #170
breckenedge wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MagSafe is back on new models, and Lightning is physically thinner than USB-C.

A surprise for me was that lightning is only USB2 and one-sided, so at any moment it is plugged half of the pins is unused. Additionally it has exposed wires, in case of charger failure, USB-C provides a better protection.

The exposed wires make lightning easier to plug into a phone than USB-C: you don’t have to line up the lightning connector with its port as precisely as you do USB-C because the connector is slightly smaller than the port, whereas it is almost flush in USB-C.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#330

Post by patentatt »

treesknees wrote: post #320
throwaway92394 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Innovation is overrated. And standardising is not blocking. Hard disagree? Both lightning and USB C were massive improvements in durability compared to Micro USB - I'd argue lightning is still better in that regard, because there's no thin piece inside the phone that can break (did phone repair, and 99% of the time a "broken" iphone port was just stuck lint). USB C is not universally better then then Micro, namely…

Granted this isn't the fault of the connector, but USB-C is certainly a mess. My Nintendo Switch uses USB-C charging, but I can't use my MacBook charger for it. There are different cables, ratings, etc. "make everything USB-C" is asking for confusion. As much as I hate having a different cable for every device, at least when I pick up a (Apple-branded) lightning cable, I know it will work correctly for my iPhone.

Isn't the switch a notorious outlier and oddball with respect to its usb-c implementation though? I think it's more just that Nintendo screwed up one product than the standard is bad.
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