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A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

nytimes.com

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Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#131

Post by notahacker »

strken wrote: post #119
notahacker wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm pretty sure the gradient of all input-to-output curves becomes negative at some point, and don't see any reason why that point should be exactly 40 hours a week Tbf, it's the 4 day workweek advocates explicitly making the claim that everyone's output curves become negative on the fifth day such that 32hr output ~= 40 hrs output. Legal restrictions on working hours weren't put in place with the assumption that f…

Anybody advocating a specific n-day workweek, whether n is 4, 5, 6, or anything else, is probably going to claim their system has advantages related to productivity. The argument can be more complicated than just "the company will be more productive." Examples are "society will be overall more productive" (because the free time will be used productively), or "people should be allowed to work more hours if they want"…

> I think it's wrong to claim anyone advocating a 4-day workweek must necessarily believe a company will have higher productivity.

The experiment being discussed here literally sets workers the target of achieving the same output as they previously managed in 5 days.

Sure, some people prefer 4 day weeks and happily take a pay cut in return and some people want government intervention to give them a better deal, but - unlike the 5 day week - there is an explicit productivity claim by many 4 day week advocates being assessed here

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#132

Post by tomatocracy »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #82
kule wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of people go for Monday or Friday when going down to 4 days a week. There's definitely some advantages to that, however as an alternative suggestion I prefer Wednesdays off. I find even in the best jobs, there's a general level of stress that builds up at work over consecutive days. There's a great feeling being a bit stressed on Tuesday and thinking "ah it's ok I've got tomorrow off". It's like that "Fri…

Shops in the UK used to have a half day on Wednesdays.

Traditionally so did many schools (sports fixtures were then usually on a Weds afternoon). A few still do this.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#133

Post by _fat_santa »

codelord wrote: post #23

I wonder what the perspective of other people who run businesses or manage teams are on this subject? I have managed teams at top tech companies in bay area in the past (although switched back to an engineering position recently). Regardless of the company, I have always wondered why everyone around me is working so slowly. Things that a good engineer should be able to do in a day gets done in a month or more. When w…

> Regardless of the company, I have always wondered why everyone around me is working so slowly.

The barrier is never the code, always the communication. Depending on the feature, you will have to work across a few teams, delegate, coordinate, etc. Writing the code is the easy part, the hard part is getting everyone on the same page.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#134

Post by _fat_santa »

I've worked for a number of tech companies in the US and many of them could easily move to a 4 day workweek. Reason I say that is at every place, there was a culture of slacking off on a Friday.

Not in an overt way but you could tell, meetings wouldn't be scheduled after 10AM on Friday, any meeting would be short and sweet. Any longer meetings would be pushed off to Monday. Slack is usually pretty quiet, and the green dots turn grey starting around 1PM.

The bosses could do something about it, but they don't because they also don't want meetings and are just looking forward to the weekend themselves. The only time you would even hear from bosses is a reminder to submit your timesheet before leaving for the weekend.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#135

Post by throwawaymanbot »

kule wrote: post #70
jen729w wrote: post #3

Some time last year I stopped working Mondays. I’m a contractor and I know my boss well, so I just said that I didn’t want to work Mondays any more. The difference is remarkable. You go from spending three quarters of your days at work to just over half. The weekend is actually relaxing. You can do chores, relax, and really unwind before the work week starts again. We use Mondays to work on our side projects. You can…

I see a lot of people go for Monday or Friday when going down to 4 days a week. There's definitely some advantages to that, however as an alternative suggestion I prefer Wednesdays off. I find even in the best jobs, there's a general level of stress that builds up at work over consecutive days. There's a great feeling being a bit stressed on Tuesday and thinking "ah it's ok I've got tomorrow off". It's like that "Fri…

No post body was provided.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#136

Post by foolinaround »

In knowledge based industries, what could as important as getting time off is to see if your colleagues have time off at the same time.

If a colleague is working there is always this message that needs to be addressed that can't wait, and even otherwise, you come back from the weekend with an overflowing inbox

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#137

Post by seanmcdirmid »

djpr wrote: post #50
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally find my weekends a bit exhausting because of my 5 year old, and get to relax at just doing my professional job on Monday when he is back to school. I fear that 3 day weekends every week (since we shouldn’t leave day care workers and teachers out of this) would be the end of me. I’m sure my perspective will change after we are out of the needy kid stage, but even before my son was born, I liked working (I…

I've got a toddler and already work 4 days week (Friday off). Daycare is 5 days a week, so it's great to have Fridays free to work on my side projects, read, go on small hikes - and when my wife is free - we take long lunches together etc. As long as daycare / schooling remains 5 days a week, I think 4 days a week of work for parents is a fantastic idea.

But if we are working four days a week, why not daycare providers? They have jobs that are difficult as well, they would enjoy that extra day off. I just don’t see them staying open and working 5 days a week if everyone else are just working 4. Maybe with extra staff? But staffing is already impossible in that sector.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#138

Post by seanmcdirmid »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #78
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love spending time with my kid, but it really is hard work. Taking care of my kid is my real job, the one I work for money is much easier to do. Weekends are exhausting, not really about rest, the week is much more relaxed. Many parents would say similar, is that surprising? Daycare is great for the kid. The teachers can provide much more attention and direction on things that I simply can’t, and he really gets a l…

Semi-off-topic, but did you try taking your kid to play ice hockey? It is one of the best sports for kids that have a lot of energy and need to shake it off. And they have so much padding it is really safe. Where I live we have lots of 5-6 year olds (and a few 3-4 year olds) who really enjoy it. Usually clubs have old kids equipment that you can borrow for the first couple of months while you try it out.

He takes soccer classes, will do basketball also in the fall. We are trying to pack his schedule with fun things to do as those things reopen. Going through the 3-5 stage during COVID wasn’t fun.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#139

Post by seanmcdirmid »

PhillyG wrote: post #81
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally find my weekends a bit exhausting because of my 5 year old, and get to relax at just doing my professional job on Monday when he is back to school. I fear that 3 day weekends every week (since we shouldn’t leave day care workers and teachers out of this) would be the end of me. I’m sure my perspective will change after we are out of the needy kid stage, but even before my son was born, I liked working (I…

Day care centres near me already have their staff on shifts, or at least some people working part time and starting later than others, so that they can cover the extra couple of hours that parents doing a 9-5 would need to be able to do those hours + the journey from day care to their work and back. If they gave their staff less hours each, that would simply mean they'd need to employ more staff to give the same serv…

Daycare centers where I live are already stretched thin with staffing. It is already becoming less accessible because they simply can’t hire enough workers, anyone who wants to work full time can easily do that. Minimum per kid staffing rules mean that the staffing problem can’t be solved by increasing productivity.

The only way they could employ more staff is by drastically increasing pay, but then daycare becomes even less accessible than it already is. It’s a huge mess that is probably unrelated to this proposal, but an excuse to go to 4 day a week schedules (because parents can fill in for 3) would probably be taken quickly.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#140

Post by dncornholio »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #137
djpr wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a toddler and already work 4 days week (Friday off). Daycare is 5 days a week, so it's great to have Fridays free to work on my side projects, read, go on small hikes - and when my wife is free - we take long lunches together etc. As long as daycare / schooling remains 5 days a week, I think 4 days a week of work for parents is a fantastic idea.

But if we are working four days a week, why not daycare providers? They have jobs that are difficult as well, they would enjoy that extra day off. I just don’t see them staying open and working 5 days a week if everyone else are just working 4. Maybe with extra staff? But staffing is already impossible in that sector.

> why not daycare providers

Why not, why not? You don't need extra staff, you just need scheduling.

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