Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 165 posts

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#41

Post by jokethrowaway »

rektide wrote: post #35
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally find my weekends a bit exhausting because of my 5 year old, and get to relax at just doing my professional job on Monday when he is back to school. I fear that 3 day weekends every week (since we shouldn’t leave day care workers and teachers out of this) would be the end of me. I’m sure my perspective will change after we are out of the needy kid stage, but even before my son was born, I liked working (I…

If you really just want escape from life, then maybe more personal time is bad & lots of work time is good. But I'd hope that for many parents, having a day with neither work nor childcare might be an opportunity, might be appreciated, might be a time, finally, where you can rediscover & do some you.

Plenty of people, me included, (males and/or high performance in particular) care more about things than people and will find extremely tiring to talk to people or take care or their kids. Coding doesn't tire me, dealing with kids does.

There are people who have the opposite experience and people who feel ok with both.

This idea that parents should uniquely and equally be caretaker for their kids is absolutely against biological reality for a lot of people; I'm happy to be around my kids for a limited amount of time (and the less they're toddlers the more I can spend with them without going insane) but my main contribution is providing them food, shelter and protection.

My mandated paternity leaves, while being economically advantageous, were an absolute nightmare.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#42

Post by silves89 »

jen729w wrote: post #3

Some time last year I stopped working Mondays. I’m a contractor and I know my boss well, so I just said that I didn’t want to work Mondays any more. The difference is remarkable. You go from spending three quarters of your days at work to just over half. The weekend is actually relaxing. You can do chores, relax, and really unwind before the work week starts again. We use Mondays to work on our side projects. You can…

I've been working four-day weeks for about six years.

It's a force-multiplier for contentment. No other life change comes close. I'm grateful every week and like you I'm never going back.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#43

Post by jokethrowaway »

codelord wrote: post #23

I wonder what the perspective of other people who run businesses or manage teams are on this subject? I have managed teams at top tech companies in bay area in the past (although switched back to an engineering position recently). Regardless of the company, I have always wondered why everyone around me is working so slowly. Things that a good engineer should be able to do in a day gets done in a month or more. When w…

Completely agree.

This is the reason I don't hire anyone for my business but partner with other developers I trust and promise part of the revenue.

Without promises of passive revenue (30-50% equity), almost no engineer worth their salt would be productive.

I could hire contractors for a project and get shitty code but at that point I'd rather just do it myself.

I've tried hiring multiple times in my startups and little equity is essentially wasted on people, same as market rate salaries.

That's why nothing gets done in mid - big companies. People are not tied to the success of the company and layers of middle management provide a way to hide.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#44

Post by rektide »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #37
rektide wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really just want escape from life, then maybe more personal time is bad & lots of work time is good. But I'd hope that for many parents, having a day with neither work nor childcare might be an opportunity, might be appreciated, might be a time, finally, where you can rediscover & do some you.

I love spending time with my kid, but it really is hard work. Taking care of my kid is my real job, the one I work for money is much easier to do. Weekends are exhausting, not really about rest, the week is much more relaxed. Many parents would say similar, is that surprising? Daycare is great for the kid. The teachers can provide much more attention and direction on things that I simply can’t, and he really gets a l…

That all makes sense. Thanks for sharing. I guess I'm still interested in considering- how could your life be better if you did have some you time too? A lot of parents really lack any kind of time, it's always work or family, and it seems unreasonable in extreme to me; I really want to see a world where parents have some self time too.

I feel even worse for layering on more here, but I think, ultimately, one of the best things a parent can give their child is a sense of personhood. It's one of the slowest, least clear lessons, and the impact seems slow to naught, but having hobbies, doing things, having your own interests as a parent is setting a model of being interested in the world: of engaging yourself & demonstrating control & direction & volition. Parents- in living- to demonstrate what a self is.

That idea- of a world where we can visibly see others who are motivated, have intrinsic motivations desires and pursuits- beyond subsistence & survival- I think that's a keystone factor in the world, in what has made humanity enduring & interesting & capable. I worry after it, significantly. And I want, very much, for parents to have time & permission, for their self to continue to mature & engage, and to not just have to always be engaged, always be tending or working.

I have plenty of time & I spend a lot of it somewhat-inertly, so I can't expect too much from 1 day a week where there might be no work & not constant family. But I do have lots of pursuits, and they do help me shape myself, help me grow & see myself over time. I want very much everyone to have some option, some time to explore on this earth, engaging, not just being engaged.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#45

Post by damagednoob »

rektide wrote: post #39
codelord wrote: post #23

I wonder what the perspective of other people who run businesses or manage teams are on this subject? I have managed teams at top tech companies in bay area in the past (although switched back to an engineering position recently). Regardless of the company, I have always wondered why everyone around me is working so slowly. Things that a good engineer should be able to do in a day gets done in a month or more. When w…

> high output individuals usually have intrinsic motivations I agree a lot that intrinsic motivation is key, changes everything, and I think this is a widescale struggle. But while the motivation is intrinsic, the survival rate of intrinsic motivation is deeply governed by the organization. Many many decent-size and/or moderately-mature organizations create resistance, ongoingly tax motivation, sap our will & sense t…

> Very few organizations give their employees real license to do good things, to tackle the work well & encompass broad wins.

I sympathise with your argument but the problem is that the Dunning–Kruger effect exists for both the employee and the manager.

I've seen 20-something, know-nothing developers relentlessly question every business decision during planning when they clearly have no idea about the larger scope of the business.

The reality is that the average person is average and every organisation is setup to succeed _despite_ the lowest common denominator.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#46

Post by coding123 »

One thing I would do with a 4 day work week is make more food.

As a country we eat out too damn much. Every time I make falafels or pita bread (from scratch - as in soaking garbanzo beans) it's like the best tasting food ever. Just no time.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#49

Post by ng55QPSK »

srb24 wrote: post #48

Nice for employees but most succesful Hackers/entrepreneurs I know work 6-7 days a week. Availability is often key rather than actual total hours worked.

See it like this: They work 6-7 day because they are successful. At the same time they didn't manage to scale.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#50

Post by djpr »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #15
jen729w wrote: post #3

Some time last year I stopped working Mondays. I’m a contractor and I know my boss well, so I just said that I didn’t want to work Mondays any more. The difference is remarkable. You go from spending three quarters of your days at work to just over half. The weekend is actually relaxing. You can do chores, relax, and really unwind before the work week starts again. We use Mondays to work on our side projects. You can…

I personally find my weekends a bit exhausting because of my 5 year old, and get to relax at just doing my professional job on Monday when he is back to school. I fear that 3 day weekends every week (since we shouldn’t leave day care workers and teachers out of this) would be the end of me. I’m sure my perspective will change after we are out of the needy kid stage, but even before my son was born, I liked working (I…

I've got a toddler and already work 4 days week (Friday off). Daycare is 5 days a week, so it's great to have Fridays free to work on my side projects, read, go on small hikes - and when my wife is free - we take long lunches together etc.

As long as daycare / schooling remains 5 days a week, I think 4 days a week of work for parents is a fantastic idea.

Post reply on HN