Live data from Hacker News

Apple Unveils M2

apple.com

471–480 of 782 posts

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#471

All i want is a laptop with similar build quality, battery life, and Ubuntu.

Would a Ubuntu arm64 VM running under macOS be worthwhile?

I work on an Ubuntu VM running in Parallels on a Mac M1 to target a Raspberry Pi.

It’s the very best such setup possible.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#473
post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with it having been plugged in in my home office for basically two straight years during the pandemic Yeah, my second seems to have succumbed to that as well. There's a setting in the BIOS that says "I plan on keeping this plugged in all the time" and it'll do better battery management that way.

My mbp automatically enables that after being plugged in for awhile, by setting the max threshold to 80% or something. The mbp warned me in the battery monitor I think. Nice, because I wasn't even thinking of such things.

That's the kind of thing that Linux tends to miss out on. But I don't feel that selling my computing experience to Cupertino is worth such things either.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#474
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread isn't very useful since my original comment wasn't clear enough, and it seems like people are misinterpreting my point, and then making assumptions about those interpretations. * I'm not saying Apple should make a "modular laptop", just disagreeing with the idea that users wouldn't buy one. * I'm also not talking about Framework-style modularity, but "simple" things like swapping out the hard drive and RA…

I'm following. Modular designs are not without tradeoff. Using memory on a board requires different types of memory (i.e. not LPDDRX), which have different performance and power characteristics. It requires changes to packaging and the overall design to facilitate that modularity. It changes their ability to share subcomponent designs with other products in their offerings. It introduces opportunities for commercial…

All true, but what I'm saying is that nothing has been "proven". The market has not decided that this is what it wants, Apple has. They have a pure monopoly on the market for Mac-compatible hardware, so whatever they do is immune to the regular market forces which would normally require them to make different product decisions.

So again, whatever Apple manages to sell does not really reflect the reality of the market, since they 100% control that particular market. To say that consumers don't want something because Apple says so, is just wrong. Maybe Apple is right (and this isn't just a decision that's beneficial to their already-obscene margins), but there's no way to know. Hence, it is not "proven" in any meaningful way.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#475
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why their ecosystem “just works” is because it’s a tightly controlled vertically inte grated prison. The second you allow choice and a multitude of hardware and software configurations is when you start seeing complexity for users as well as instability.

I'm not saying they should, just disagreeing with the idea that it's a proven thing. Apple likely has many reasons for not selling a user-configurable Mac, but I don't believe "users don't want it" is in that list of reasons. For example, customers definitely want lower prices, and a modular/user-upgradable Mac would clearly offer that (e.g. upgrading the stock hard drive with something much bigger, faster, and cheap…

Not sure if you’re aware that Apple doesn’t use stock hard drives, they use raw Flash and implement their own controller. Part of the aforementioned vertical optimization of performance (and security in this case).

Anyway, yes, this argument always comes down to whether enough people want a larger, slower, less reliable, more configurable, more upgradeable device, and it’s hard to know for sure without trying the expensive experiment. At least we got some ports back!

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their answer is this: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/05/microsoft-will-boost... They will need to get developers up to speed porting their apps to ARM before they are even in a position to re-boot their Windows ARM strategy. But this is a multi-year journey which is likely to give Intel/AMD time to produce something more competitive.

Even if that happens, I'm not sure how much appeal an ARM version of Windows actually has. Right now, the only things keeping me on Windows are Visual Studio and my huge library of legacy software ( ahem video games). Microsoft's x86 emulation on ARM is downright atrocious. A native ARM version of Visual Studio could keep me productive, but I'm not about to spend money on a new computer than runs all my favorite old…

I've got my eyes on the ARM64 build of full Visual Studio coming in "the next few weeks".

https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2022/05/27/news-ro...

I've been using VS 2022 on "Windows 11 for ARM" inside Parallels Desktop on my M1 Max MBP, and it's just barely usable as VS 2022 is 64-bit. JetBrains Rider is pretty good on macOS, and "VS 2022 for Mac" is coming along now, but full VS would be nice.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#477
post #5

"M2 takes the industry-leading performance per watt of M1 even further with an 18 percent faster CPU, a 35 percent more powerful GPU, and a 40 percent faster Neural Engine" 18% faster at the same performance per watt is a nice increase. Interesting to see if this will ever make it to their desktop computers.

The 18% is for multithreaded workloads. Have they said anything about single core perf yet?

I didn't see anything, but inferring from what I can find it's mostly improvements the slow cores (icestorm -> blizzard) improvements. The fast cores (firestorm to avalanch) seems like a very small difference.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#478
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How has that been "proven"? If your argument is that people are still buying Macs despite the lack of customization, well that's ignoring the state of the market. Most consumers only have two choices (Mac or Windows), and oftentimes it comes down to familiarity with one OS over the other, rather than any specific features or merits of the actual product. If Apple released a "customizable" Mac, or one that could be up…

It's proven through consumer choice of laptops over desktops. Proof is in the sales figures. Consumers choose a less customizable product over one that is customizable indicating logically that some features are more important then customizability. Which continues to be in line with what I said. Consumers don't care about it as much. It is proof. Please refute this claim or acknowledge you are wrong. Thanks.

Now I know you're just trolling me

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#479
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't really have to worry about competition too much for a long time, even if Intel and AMD get comparable watt/power levels for laptops, Apple isn't going to be using them for their products anytime soon. And people using Macbooks aren't likely to switch to Windows/Linux machines, even if there is a 20% better CPU. But really we've only had 2.5 released cycles so far. Not much to go by.

I might be a very small minority but I'd personally switch back to Linux in an instant if there was something comparable to the M series hardware

Asahi Linux is running well enough to be usable for lots of things.

However, no screen brightness control, no sound or YouTube currently. And there's some page size weirdness that means Chrome/Electron (?) is not usable, so no VS Code.

If you can live with that, it's so nice having Linux on the M1 hardware.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#480
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't really have to worry about competition too much for a long time, even if Intel and AMD get comparable watt/power levels for laptops, Apple isn't going to be using them for their products anytime soon. And people using Macbooks aren't likely to switch to Windows/Linux machines, even if there is a 20% better CPU. But really we've only had 2.5 released cycles so far. Not much to go by.

I might be a very small minority but I'd personally switch back to Linux in an instant if there was something comparable to the M series hardware

Despite the exciting news and I'll definitely upgrade my intel MBP to either M1 or M2 in the future, I doubt my personal workflow will change: Linux for development, Mac for productivity and maybe some (lightweight) development, Windows for gaming and gaming only. While Apple probably wants to steal existing user base from Windows, on productivity uses maybe, I don't think they're planning to drag people from Linux on development workloads.
Post reply on HN