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Apple Unveils M2

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Re: Apple Unveils M2

#401
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the world basically runs on excel, but given that, the world cares about excel’s performance. Especially as spreadsheets are only getting bigger. And then there’s this: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/use-office-for-ma...

Office for Mac is a non-starter for power users due to the lack of Alt-key accelerators. There are countless other missing features, but that alone is enough to never make the switch

Interesting that you state there are missing features.

I remember a speech given by one of the leaders of Mac development at Microsoft saying that new features are tested out on the Mac first, and if they work out, they're brought into the Windows version.

Is that no longer the case?

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#403

I got an M1 Macbook Pro, and yeah, the processor is fast and cool and all that, but the most absolutely wonderful thing about it by far is that there's no touchbar!

I really, really, really want to like the touchbar, but it just isn't useful to me. I wish they'd put some serious effort into improving it.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#404
post #363
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a framework owner, there's maybe two orders of magnitude difference in build quality between a mac and a framework. The track pad and display suck for a laptop in 2022. The display has issues with calibration and resolution (understandable from where they're at right now, but still it's trash compared to an XPS or MB). The trackpad has mechanical issues that cause it to wiggle, its been reported on the forum (and…

Exactly how do you quantify "two orders of magnitude of build quality"? What units are you using for this analysis?

I think "maybe" is an important part of the text you quoted, and the rest of the comment goes into decent detail regarding the specific areas where the experience fell short of their expectations.

Did you stop reading after the first paragraph?

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#405
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can anyone knowledgeable please oblige us with a comparison?

M2 will be faster in single core, M1 Pro will be faster in multi core. Taking Apple's 20% claim at face value: Geekbench Single Core - M1, M1 Pro: 1700, M2: 2040 Geekbench Multi Core - M1: 7700, M1 Pro 8-core: 9000, M2: 9200, M1 Pro 10-core: 12400 Of course we'll see M2 Pro/Max sooner or later, which will presumably match M2 on single core just like the previous gen.

>Taking Apple's 20% claim at face value:

Which you shouldn't. They are, once again, using performance per watt. Nothing guarantees that it even runs at the same wattage.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#406
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5 years from now people will grok more fundamentally that launching 2 process nodes ahead of Intel via TSMC was the big win. AMD will have process node parity with Apple this year - Zen4 will be on N5P, as will M2. I doubt that alone will be sufficient for x86 to catch up, they have a LOT of ground to make up. (this is, of course, the "small" laptop chip for Apple, the M2 Pro/Max will add more CPU cores and a much…

> When AMD is on 5nm this year, we can re-assess and see whether that was the driving factor, or whether there are design reasons as well. Quick note: AMD's 5nm offerings will not be using a big.LITTLE configuration, so direct comparison with the M1 would probably not be very accurate for the purposes of comparing power consumption.

And Intel has big.LITTLE but they're not using TSMC nodes. Apple comparisons run on OSX or Asahi Linux, which doesn't run x86, so the software/ecosystem is different. Etc etc.

No comparison is ever perfect, you'll just have to take the best data we have and run with it. Complaining that a study isn't exactly perfect is trite, once you get beyond the "junior scientist makes obvious methodological error" tier it's honestly one of the least useful forms of criticism, someone is always going to think it should have been done better/differently (and wants you to take the time and spend the money to do it for them). But science is about doing the best you have and trying to make reasonable extrapolations about the things you can't.

Single-thread benchmarks on big vs little cores will get you IPC figures, and then you can scale those according to clocks you see on full-load conditions, for example.

Or you can simply compare it to a future 13th/14th gen Intel i3 with big.LITTLE, or an AMD quad-core APU. AMD has SMT, that's an advantage, Apple has single-threaded cores but a couple extra little cores, it's similar-ish.

Nothing is ever perfect. You just make do. It doesn't mean we throw up our hands and scream that if we can't be accurate to 1000 decimal points then we can never truly know anything.

(You may not have intended this, so just FYI: it kinda comes off like you're pre-stating that you won't accept the results if they don't come out the way you like, that you'll find some other difference between the two to latch onto. And there will always be some minor thing you can latch onto, no two designs are exactly identical. But that's not really an honest way to approach science, merely being able to theorize some differences isn't useful and if you feel strongly about it then you should do a similar test yourself to demonstrate.)

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#407

I got an M1 Macbook Pro, and yeah, the processor is fast and cool and all that, but the most absolutely wonderful thing about it by far is that there's no touchbar!

Am I the only one who just ignored the touchbar and didn't take it as a personal affront?

Your finger never slipped and hit the "play" button by mistake, blasting the last song you played at max volume directly into your ear. Happened dozens of times in the first year of having a touchbar (work laptop, not my decision), super jarring every time. Decades of having a physical "play" function button hooked up to do the same thing and it didn't happen once.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#408
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M2 will outperform the M1 Pro variants on single core perf, since it is the same across all M1 chips apart from the memory bandwidth.

It's hard to imagine needing this honestly. I'm typing this on an M1 air, and even on this chip it's so snappy and quick even on things like larger compilation jobs. I'm not on the super-power-user end, but imo the price/performance for the air, as well as the form factor seems to be a sweet spot.

Single threaded performance is very useful for gaming, but I agree that the M1 is so fast that anything faster is just a bonus.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#409
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's very interesting to think the processor releases were holding back the Mac for so long. Apple also made a huge leap forward with their cooling designs. Making the laptop thicker and investing in proper cooling design made a huge difference. My M1 laptop is significantly quieter than my old Intel laptop at the same power consumption level. It’s not even close. Apple’s last generation chassis and cooling solutio…

Apple reused the exact same Intel chassis for their previous generation M1 MacBook Air and Pro 13”.

Sans the "contactless" cooling I'm assuming?

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#410
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modular laptops currently exist, and have existed in multiple incarnations over their entire existence. They always flop in the mass market. People in the tech community want modularity and upgradability. But you must remember that tech forums are tiny bubbles. The mass market overwhelmingly DGAF. If you want to be successful at selling laptops to a tiny market, it is possible. You will have a company that looks like…

This thread isn't very useful since my original comment wasn't clear enough, and it seems like people are misinterpreting my point, and then making assumptions about those interpretations. * I'm not saying Apple should make a "modular laptop", just disagreeing with the idea that users wouldn't buy one. * I'm also not talking about Framework-style modularity, but "simple" things like swapping out the hard drive and RA…

I'm following. Modular designs are not without tradeoff. Using memory on a board requires different types of memory (i.e. not LPDDRX), which have different performance and power characteristics. It requires changes to packaging and the overall design to facilitate that modularity. It changes their ability to share subcomponent designs with other products in their offerings. It introduces opportunities for commercial third-party modifications, which can be of varying quality. It requires a larger BOM. And it changes the mechanics of product tiering.

All of these attributes influence factors for which the mass market does consider when buying laptops.

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