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Apple Unveils M2

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Re: Apple Unveils M2

#291

Post by dboreham »

gwbas1c wrote: post #259
kyleplum wrote: post #2

I can't help but wonder what Microsoft's answer to Apple Silicon will be going forward. They don't really make hardware, but selling Windows laptops gets harder and harder the further Apple gets ahead. It seems inevitable that there needs to be some ARM-based Windows laptops to compete in perf/watt to the M1/M2 but I don't know what company can provide an ARM chip that competes with Apple at this point.

I just tried out the Surface X. (Arm-based Microsoft tablet running Windows.) There was a lot to like about it, but I returned it because it wouldn't connect to my printer and scanner. In general, compared to a Macbook: - It has a touchscreen - It has a detachable keyboard - It has a pen input Microsoft's execution on the device is flawed. (IE, in order to use it as a laptop it needs a much more sturdy hinged keyboar…

I also invested in a Surface Pro X (I have macbooks but don't like to use them vs Windows), bought at a deep discount on Amazon. I persevered with the ARM-related issues and now love it. You really need to run the insiders' builds at present in order to get decent compatibility (e.g. Android apps and 64-bit Intel emulation). I have Docker and the complete stack of dev tools for my projects (Scala, Kotlin, Haskell, Rust, TS) running in WSL2 with VSCode IDE.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#292

Post by seritools »

GeekyBear wrote: post #240
smoldesu wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: M2 is a tock release, not a tick. This is pretty much the same behavior that ended up getting Intel shot in the foot: leaning too heavily on marginal performance increases from process enhancement will bite you in the butt when your competitors get their tech on your node. Intel and AMD are both going to be on 5nm in 2023, Apple should be pretty worried if this is what they're fighting with. 3nm isn't e…

AMD recently teased a ~15% single threaded performance increase for Zen4 when they will move from TSMC 7nm to TSMC 5nm. Apple just teased ~18% CPU increase while staying on TSMC 5nm. Sounds like they are doing just fine.

AMD stated >15%, not ~15%, and this was the worst-case, conservative number, as they have clarified.

The increased core frequency alone brings in around that number already.

https://overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/amd_calls_its_zen...

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#293

Post by mnholt »

freedomben wrote: post #273
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #52

All i want is a laptop with similar build quality, battery life, and Ubuntu.

I really think that's what the Framework will be in a couple of years. I use one now and it's pretty great, but does have a few (totally acceptable to me) rough edges that they're working on.

I don’t mean to discredit Framework in the slightest but they are still leagues away from Apple when it comes to build quality.

The entire industry struggles to match Apple’s fit and finish, it will be an uphill battle for a hardware based startup. I do hope they succeed.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#294

Post by ineedasername »

edgefield wrote: post #228
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's very interesting to think the processor releases were holding back the Mac for so long. Apple also made a huge leap forward with their cooling designs. Making the laptop thicker and investing in proper cooling design made a huge difference. My M1 laptop is significantly quieter than my old Intel laptop at the same power consumption level. It’s not even close. Apple’s last generation chassis and cooling solutio…

100% agree. The last generation of MacBook pros with intel processors were virtually unusable for zoom calls or any intensive processing power tasks.

Zoom kills the battery on my (non Mac) laptop as well, why the heck does a simple video conference app have this kind of power draw?

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#296

Post by shadowpho »

kyleplum wrote: post #81
threeseed wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their answer is this: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/05/microsoft-will-boost... They will need to get developers up to speed porting their apps to ARM before they are even in a position to re-boot their Windows ARM strategy. But this is a multi-year journey which is likely to give Intel/AMD time to produce something more competitive.

As far as I can tell, the ARM hardware linked is vastly inferior to the current M1 hardware, let alone M2. > But this is a multi-year journey which is likely to give Intel/AMD time to produce something more competitive. And during this time Apple is going to release M2 Pro/Max, M3, etc. I just have a hard time seeing how Intel/AMD catchup in the laptop space.

It was hard to imagine Intel catching up to AMD pre C2D.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#297

Post by lapetitejort »

yieldcrv wrote: post #196
haunter wrote: post #163

I'll switch once I can play my full Steam library on a machine like this. The power is there for sure.

I'm only a very casual gamer these days (although anyone I go on a date with would only see a gaming accessory or console and immediately think hardcore), I recently went down the gaming rabbithole to see what I can do with my M1. It seems like MacOS on M1 architecture can play almost everything! Like, there are so many titles that don't have OSX listed as ever being released for, but it can either be played out the…

Three semi-broad examples, Elden Ring (Japanese dev), Horizon: Zero Dawn (Dutch dev, PS4 port), and Inscryption (indie dev) do not show MacOS support. I have not tried installing Windows-only games on a Mac. Can they be installed regardless if they don't show support? Does Valve have Mac-specific APIs to get them runnable like they do for Linux?

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#298

Post by shadowpho »

dboreham wrote: post #291
gwbas1c wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just tried out the Surface X. (Arm-based Microsoft tablet running Windows.) There was a lot to like about it, but I returned it because it wouldn't connect to my printer and scanner. In general, compared to a Macbook: - It has a touchscreen - It has a detachable keyboard - It has a pen input Microsoft's execution on the device is flawed. (IE, in order to use it as a laptop it needs a much more sturdy hinged keyboar…

I also invested in a Surface Pro X (I have macbooks but don't like to use them vs Windows), bought at a deep discount on Amazon. I persevered with the ARM-related issues and now love it. You really need to run the insiders' builds at present in order to get decent compatibility (e.g. Android apps and 64-bit Intel emulation). I have Docker and the complete stack of dev tools for my projects (Scala, Kotlin, Haskell, Ru…

What compiler do you use?

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#299

Post by de6u99er »

MarioMan wrote: post #284

Now that we have validation that Apple is sticking with a numeric naming convention, I wonder how they will handle the upcoming naming clash with the M7 through M12 motion coprocessors used in the A-series chips.

I think tis is a non-issue. In 6 years nobody will remember those coprocessors any more.

Re: Apple Unveils M2

#300

Post by pier25 »

paulmd wrote: post #164
Xeoncross wrote: post #82

I'm not surprised they are keeping the M1 Air alive. That thing is a great price/performance combo in a very light and portable wrapper. It's been $850-$900 multiple times at Costco, Bestbuy or Microcenter. Also, the first computer where getting the upgraded hard drive (512GB or 1TB) really helps with the low ram because of the integration bus they have with the drive for swap. It's fast.

The price increases are a kick in the shins though. 20% more for 18% more performance. The M1 generation looks to be a bit of an "introductory offer" to get people looking at apple who otherwise wouldn't have... once they have established their mindshare as being a performance leader worth considering over x86, they can raise prices back up.

I agree. The Air used to be the laptop for everyone. Now it has entered into MBP territory in terms of pricing and performance.

What will happen with the M3? Will the base Air start at $1500?

Will the M2 Air drop its price to $999 when the M3 is released?

I'm not saying the M2 Air is not worth its price compared to x86 laptops, but it's ridiculous that the cheapest Apple laptop is way overkill for its intended audience. Even the M1 is already overkill for users that typically spend the majority of their time in a browser or using Office.

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