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The Toxic Grind

vadimkravcenko.com

41–50 of 81 posts

Re: The Toxic Grind

#41
I appreciate the idea behind this post, and it's true that chronic overwork is debilitating - but there are a lot of different ways to get things done that don't necessarily conform to the author's ideal conclusion.

For me, the 9-5 routine every single week is a toxic grind, with weekends off and all. My preferred work routine covers about the same hourly total, but it's basically three weeks on nonstop, one week off to recuperate and relax and do other things.

This is clearly not for everyone, but I think it has some similarities to how our ancestors lived. Say you're a Polar Inuit, and the caribou are migrating. You hunt caribou around the clock, then relax, store the product, take it easy for a while. Say you're a simple farmer, and it's harvest time, or planting time - you work around the clock to bring in the harvest/plant the crop, then take it relatively easy for a while.

In the modern world, if you're working on something complicated, there's this 'loading time' factor just to get the situation into your head. If it takes a few hours to get up to speed, and you have to do that every day, it's just wasted time. Get up to speed, work straight through with it all in your head, get some food and sleep, and the next day - you're still up to speed. This is far more productive (for complex work) than the awful 9-5 routine, and weekends surrounded by crowds of people are not that great, either. Much better to have a whole week off afterwards.

Where this goes off the rails is when some boss says, no, you don't get that week off, I need you to work like a slave every single week. This is a problem with the hierarchical nature of most modern human societies, and typically said boss is out at 2:00 every day for that important golf game where the important deals are made and the important cocktails are drunk, can't miss that. The construction boss who shows up at the site to 'oversee' for an hour or two is the classic example of this.

In our current society, the only real option for this kind of approach appears to be self-employment, which has a whole other set of problems.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#42

I've always been confused by this, as most studies show around 5~ hours a day is the maximum your brain can do work that requires deep focus (programming etc). So what are these people doing where they can work 10+ hours days? You will see seriously diminishing (and often negative) results when overworking. You'll end up waking up the next morning cleaning up and fixing bugs from your overworked brain.

that's assuming the day is entirely deep work. it's not. lots of work is shallow work. not that I support grinding down at the expense of health/happiness, but for most people there's an unlimited amount of things that can go into the TODO.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#43
post #22

It's like article author has never watched a nature documentary where gorillas kill other gorillas for territory (or most other species similar). Humans are bell curve like all other species. Nature rewards either strength, physical advantage, or mental advantage.... and there is constant competition. That's just the way it works in human nature.... humans are wired that way. You either participate, don't, or find a…

i don't know why you were downvoted. I mentioned basically the same in another comment, you can't just turn off competition between humans. Competition is a fundamental component of all known life. You can opt out but then complaining that the rest of humanity has not chose to opt out isn't really fair.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#44

I've always been confused by this, as most studies show around 5~ hours a day is the maximum your brain can do work that requires deep focus (programming etc). So what are these people doing where they can work 10+ hours days? You will see seriously diminishing (and often negative) results when overworking. You'll end up waking up the next morning cleaning up and fixing bugs from your overworked brain.

I think there's a significant amount of work that only needs to get done rather than needing deep focus, and this is especially true if you have tight deadlines. I know I could pretty easily fill up 10 hours of a working day on average. I just don't want to.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#45

This is disappointing to see on the front page as it's the 600,000th article since 2007 about why family and health are better life priorities than work. As usual the author, who invariably lives in the white collar tech-bubble, and therefore is bombarded with "hustle culture" stuff in their LinkedIn etc...sets up a strawman and then attempts to dismantle it: >This is a universal longing in a capitalist world — getti…

maybe if it keeps getting upvoted despite being the 600,000th, there's something that continues to resonate with the audience?

Re: The Toxic Grind

#46

The way I counter the "grind culture" is to have a more mellow view on things. The "grind" doesn't matter. It's mostly performative for little actual practical value. Rather, it's the small things done consistently over a long period of time that really add up. Working "hard" is neither a small thing, nor is it sustainable over time, so I simply don't do that. Instead, I set my goals and timelines, have my team hold…

having goals (short term and long term), a roadmap to get there, and executing puts you so far ahead of the curve of "hustle culture". All the blog posts, all the videos, all the discussion revolve around goals and meeting them. If you can already do that then you're already there.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#47

Hitting my mid-40’s with a reasonably successful multi decade career in tech and I’ve recently realized that some gigantic percentage (plurality, maybe majority) of all the hard work has gone into competing against the people around me for opportunities. Not into actual value creation for others, not in service of others, purely focused on beating out other people for the chances. I’m not sure how to reorient myself.…

What exactly do you mean by this?

A lot of people who are good in a capitalistic world, you know your finance people, lawyers, software engineers (@ FAANG) are kind of like race horses, they are born with ample intellectual capacity and spend their formative years competing with their peers to try to rise to the top (starting from middle school, high school, top uni, top company, top position etc...), they rarely ask themselves if what they are doing is even worth it for humanity, themselves, or posterity, they just run as soon as they are put in a race. Taking a step back and questioning this stuff is scary, especially if you are brought up to think that if you aren't running then you are falling behind.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#48

I've always been confused by this, as most studies show around 5~ hours a day is the maximum your brain can do work that requires deep focus (programming etc). So what are these people doing where they can work 10+ hours days? You will see seriously diminishing (and often negative) results when overworking. You'll end up waking up the next morning cleaning up and fixing bugs from your overworked brain.

Lots of "busy" work - meetings, answering questions on slack, constant interruptions. Before you know the day is done.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#49
post #38
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we'll have a large recession - which will knock prices back down. The Fed has prevented this from happening but have to let the air out soon - but they have to make it look like it isn't their fault. (Cue gas prices)

take ur pills

You think it was coincidence numerous members of the Fed Reserve resigned ~6 months ago? They need to not be associated with the policies - and the Fed Reserve,as a private entity, knows that it needs alternate reasons / methods for a recession. Blame must always be passed in government. The easiest way to go into recession naturally - is bond market routs and high gas prices.

The Fed is aware that in today's 'cancel culture' a lot of public outcry that finally realizes the Fed's activities weaken it's future if political will becomes too strong. Thus it needs something to 'point to' for those whose brains freeze up when 'numbers' are involved.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#50
A lot of people are working lots of hours but their output doesn't match their effort. They "work" 12 hour days and only provide some fraction of that in real value due to distraction and procrastination and whatever else they sink their time into. But chaining yourself to a desk for 12 hours and complaining is a lot easier than developing the discipline and focus to put in a solid day's effort.
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