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The Toxic Grind

vadimkravcenko.com

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Re: The Toxic Grind

#31

Post by czbond »

president wrote: post #24
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an inevitable part of late-stage capitalism, no? No. There is no playbook or inevitability playing out. "Late-stage capitalism" is just lazy cynicism by a different meme.

Well, maybe I should have re-phrased it to "Capitalism with maximizing shareholder value characteristics". Toss human nature on top of that, and you're biased towards "late stage capitalism".

I disagree. My context - I am an ardent, to the core capitalist - but a humane capitalist.

I believe in continued failure until success. Letting failure die.

Capitalism in it's current form has it's incentives mis-aligned. When aligned correctly, and not solely chasing the highest returns or Internal Rate of Return - capitalism can be the most potent force I feel on Earth.

Why? Because it aligns humans incentives (do better, provide more for self & family) with growth.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#32

Post by alexashka »

fullshark wrote: post #2

There are some things that are zero sum or reasonably approximated by a zero sum game, and they are increasingly the tickets to multigenerational prosperity, namely real estate, promotions, job offers, and college admission slots. If you are a start up, your market can realistically only support X companies each getting a piece of the pie. I contend that the rat race exists not because of collective delusion but beca…

Basic economics is that we have had enough to go around for a while now.

What you're describing is modern day insanity.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#33

Post by [deleted] »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #20
douglaswlance wrote: post #7

The point of work is to contribute to society. Sustaining your own life is a side-effect, though it is an important one, as it allows you to contribute more to society. Overworking can negatively impact how much you can contribute, so in that sense it should be avoided.

> The point of work is to contribute to society. That seems to assume work has just one purpose. That strikes me as false, in that different persons can have different purposes for doing work. Can you elaborate?

[deleted]

Re: The Toxic Grind

#34

Post by dstola »

fullshark wrote: post #2

There are some things that are zero sum or reasonably approximated by a zero sum game, and they are increasingly the tickets to multigenerational prosperity, namely real estate, promotions, job offers, and college admission slots. If you are a start up, your market can realistically only support X companies each getting a piece of the pie. I contend that the rat race exists not because of collective delusion but beca…

> multigenerational prosperity

With a lot of young people opting out of having kids and trying to find their own way in life, it would make sense that the anti-work and anti-hustler culture is much more prevalent in younger people (millenials being first). Its a generational shift first of all driven by oncoming climate disaster due to over population and will be felt through wars and hungers. Why should young people contribute to such a society and create more suffering in the process.

I am not an anti-natalist, but if we start talking multi-generational that's what it comes down to

Re: The Toxic Grind

#35

Post by cholmon »

douglaswlance wrote: post #7

The point of work is to contribute to society. Sustaining your own life is a side-effect, though it is an important one, as it allows you to contribute more to society. Overworking can negatively impact how much you can contribute, so in that sense it should be avoided.

I wager the vast majority of people take the polar opposite view: the point of work is to do what's necessary to survive, ideally to thrive. Contributing to society is nice if it can be managed, but it definitely comes further down the list of "things I need to do" for most folks.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#36

Post by compiler-guy »

krembanan wrote: post #26

I've always been confused by this, as most studies show around 5~ hours a day is the maximum your brain can do work that requires deep focus (programming etc). So what are these people doing where they can work 10+ hours days? You will see seriously diminishing (and often negative) results when overworking. You'll end up waking up the next morning cleaning up and fixing bugs from your overworked brain.

They aren't deep focusing during the other five hours, they are communicating with the team, holding meetings, planning things and whatever else.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#37

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

synu wrote: post #8

I am still not 100% sure if “sigma male grindset” is a joke or not. It seems like one of those things that started as parody, but sincere believers showed up and took it over.

In my experience, people's motivations and preferred working styles diverge basically as far as you can imagine. I know a guy who was putting in 70 hour weeks on a not-particularly-promising project for his new unfunded startup, and not even in a recreational way - he would specifically decline to hang out or play games with us because he was working.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#38

Post by hevomad »

czbond wrote: post #16
kaudby wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. For me, it comes from a place of negative emotions (like the article explained). I want: 1. to have a family 2. to provide security for my family 3. to provide a reasonable education/upbringing for my family All of these things are becoming more expensive if you take the traditional route.

we'll have a large recession - which will knock prices back down. The Fed has prevented this from happening but have to let the air out soon - but they have to make it look like it isn't their fault. (Cue gas prices)

take ur pills

Re: The Toxic Grind

#39

Post by the_snooze »

The way I counter the "grind culture" is to have a more mellow view on things. The "grind" doesn't matter. It's mostly performative for little actual practical value. Rather, it's the small things done consistently over a long period of time that really add up.

Working "hard" is neither a small thing, nor is it sustainable over time, so I simply don't do that. Instead, I set my goals and timelines, have my team hold me accountable, use my good working hours to hit those goals with rock-solid reliability, and not force myself to work outside those good hours. There's no need to grind or panic at all, and I have plenty of non-working hours to pursue all the non-work things that matter to me.

Re: The Toxic Grind

#40

Post by synu »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #30

This is disappointing to see on the front page as it's the 600,000th article since 2007 about why family and health are better life priorities than work. As usual the author, who invariably lives in the white collar tech-bubble, and therefore is bombarded with "hustle culture" stuff in their LinkedIn etc...sets up a strawman and then attempts to dismantle it: >This is a universal longing in a capitalist world — getti…

Did you ever try Clubhouse? It was just endless channels of “get rich with this one simple trick” type stuff. Not a lot of nuance, just cynically preying on people with the “you know you are better than others, pay me to help you reach your potential” types of scams.
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