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Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

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Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#161

Post by tptacek »

bkrausz wrote: post #153

Last year at FooCamp I went to a panel about women in tech (I believe I was the only guy) for two reasons: 1) I have no qualms about offending people if I feel my point is valid, and in fact enjoy being in situations where I risk such things (I find it incredibly rewarding to have meaningful discussions about things that are considered taboo). 2) To find out what the problem was Let me clarify #2: I didn't see a prob…

I thought the same thing, and argued (I felt persuasively!) on behalf of that perspective for many years. Then I watched my wife Erin, who has as many years of experience in this industry as I do, interview for tech jobs. Please take my word for it that this is not a "few bad apples" problem.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#162

Post by tnicola »

Being a female in a tech industry is legal. Having a public email address is legal (and understandable if she is a keynote speaker at an open source conferences).

Rockrolling is an acceptable form of trolling.

Sending someone an explicit email from an untraceable email address is not only unacceptable behaviour, but all those trying to justify it by saying, 'he didn't mean it' or 'she was asking for it (in so many words) are just as sociopathic as the original sender.

On what planet is what he did acceptable, appropriate or even funny?

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#163

Post by itg »

[deleted] wrote: post #156
itg wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hold up two fingers in the UK and someone tells you it is offensive, you stop doing it. Despite the numerous people who try to educate the guys who "don't get it", they continue their immature ways. I'm not going to give them a free pass.

[deleted]

I don't think or have the mindset that women are living in some sort of separate culture from us or there are stark differences between us. It's the trolls, misogynists, etc that treat them differently only because they are women.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#164

Post by tptacek »

mootothemax wrote: post #80

Skimming over the comments here, once again I find myself distressed at the large number of men in the tech community who just don't get it . Whether it's sexist jokes, inappropriate language or illustrations, or plain old stereotypes, it sometimes feels like the tech community's firmly stuck in the 70s. The worst thing is that none of this is difficult to solve, it just involves growing up, frankly.

This is mostly nerds wanting to have something to argue about. For reasons I can't put my fingers on, nothing seems to irritate nerds more than the idea that they're oppressing people; it probably has something to do with the fact that so many of them were picked on growing up.

The reality is that the stuff we're talking about here would, for the most part, be a firing offense at most companies.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#165

Post by mtoddh »

ubercore wrote: post #145
mootothemax wrote: post #80

Skimming over the comments here, once again I find myself distressed at the large number of men in the tech community who just don't get it . Whether it's sexist jokes, inappropriate language or illustrations, or plain old stereotypes, it sometimes feels like the tech community's firmly stuck in the 70s. The worst thing is that none of this is difficult to solve, it just involves growing up, frankly.

Have there been any articles/studies about what gender relations are like in other equally "divided" industries? I'm wondering if it's related to a certain type of person naturally attracted to software/tech, or if it can develop naturally in any industry split pretty starkly along gender lines.

It would be interesting- whether it's job ads comparing programmers to ninjas and rock stars, to using sexual images in slides at conferences, the tech industry seems sort of unique with regards to behavior that might be seen as juvenile in other industries.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#166

Post by forensic »

andos wrote: post #105
uriel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to the Internet. As Paul Vixie pointed out ages ago: "The Internet is not for sissies." Trolls are almost as old as the net, and they are not going to disappear without something short of a big-brother state that makes the Great Firewall Of China look like kids play. So better get used to it. Also remember: "Liberty resides in the rights of that person whose views you find most odious." — John Stuart Mill [Di…

By the same reasoning, we could argue that thieves and murderers are almost as old as civilization and we should just get used to it. Sorry, but no. They will always exist, sure, but the only thing we should get used to is hunting them fiercely. I will not surrender my right to be happy, productive, and helpful because a minority of socially-dysfunctional people are trying hard to ruin it for me and for others. Nobod…

Voltaire was wrong and I have proof. Behold:

"A short saying oft contains much wisdom." -- Sophocles

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#167

Post by [deleted] »

bkrausz wrote: post #153

Last year at FooCamp I went to a panel about women in tech (I believe I was the only guy) for two reasons: 1) I have no qualms about offending people if I feel my point is valid, and in fact enjoy being in situations where I risk such things (I find it incredibly rewarding to have meaningful discussions about things that are considered taboo). 2) To find out what the problem was Let me clarify #2: I didn't see a prob…

[deleted]

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#168

Post by ww520 »

bkrausz wrote: post #153

Last year at FooCamp I went to a panel about women in tech (I believe I was the only guy) for two reasons: 1) I have no qualms about offending people if I feel my point is valid, and in fact enjoy being in situations where I risk such things (I find it incredibly rewarding to have meaningful discussions about things that are considered taboo). 2) To find out what the problem was Let me clarify #2: I didn't see a prob…

We might think it's not our problem if we don't act like a sexist jerk, but if we don't speak up and stop these behaviors when we see them, we are part of the problem.

BTW nice of you to reach out to try to understand what the issues were.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#169

Post by sp332 »

antihero wrote: post #157
sp332 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because they don't intend to be offensive. For example: in the US, holding up two fingers is cool. In the UK, it's offensive. So one group of people can have a set of behaviors that another group finds offensive, but the first group has no idea why the second group is offended because they don't intend offense. I know there are a lot of actually misogynistic people in tech. I'm only talking about the guys who "d…

Well perhaps there's some social responsibility and generally being an adult involved in not offending people? For instance, I'm no huge fan of Islam (or any religion), however, my beef is with the doctrine and the leaders, not the average day to day Muslim, so I'll actively speak out against Islamophobia and try not to offend the average Muslim. It's called actively not being a jerk.

If I'm in the US, and I see that some Arab guy got offended by someone trying to congratulate him by giving him a thumbs-up, I might be completely at a loss as to what exactly he was offended by, or how to avoid it in future.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#170

Post by endtime »

Rariel wrote: post #135

I've worked in IP Law and for the Senate and I've never really experienced overt sexism so I kind of thought it was on the decline in the work place. Imagine my surprise when I started joining tech/start-up communities (like this one) and witnessed unparalleled sexism and ignorance. I mean attitudes that make you think you're in the 1800s (once had somebody on HN tell me that women are genetically less likely to want…

>(once had somebody on HN tell me that women are genetically less likely to want to do tech![!!!!!!!])

Are you trolling? That does not seem to be a sexist or retrograde statement.

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