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Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

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Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#111

Post by peterwwillis »

__alexs wrote: post #98
peterwwillis wrote: post #89

A couple of points if I may: 1. If you speak at conferences, especially about a non-technical subject like "women in FOSS projects" (which is more likely to get sexists riled up), you are going to get unwanted attention. Pretty much every speaker who speaks on a controversial, or non-technical, or just media-glamorized topic is going to get harassed - if not hacked. It happens all the time to men and i'm sure it happ…

What exactly is your point? People shouldn't whine that other people are bastards? It seems more than a bit like victim blaming to me.

Well I made several points. If you want a TL;DR then it's "i'm sorry women get harassed sometimes, but this case is not the norm because she was much more of a target than most women in tech"

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#112

Post by floatboth »

agentgt wrote: post #27

There are lots of bad apples but I'm kind of surprised Skud would just give up on the "whole" industry. I hope someone encourages Skud to continue developing. Even though the tech industry is still majority male I have to think there are many more industries (in particular certain horizontals like sales) that are even worse when it comes to sexual harassment.

She'll develop… music: http://skud.dreamwidth.org/10449.html

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#113

Post by propater »

peterwwillis wrote: post #89

A couple of points if I may: 1. If you speak at conferences, especially about a non-technical subject like "women in FOSS projects" (which is more likely to get sexists riled up), you are going to get unwanted attention. Pretty much every speaker who speaks on a controversial, or non-technical, or just media-glamorized topic is going to get harassed - if not hacked. It happens all the time to men and i'm sure it happ…

Yes it is the fucking internet. But as far as I know it is also our fucking community. We can try to keep it clean of this kind of garbage and to improve it.

I do not know about you, but I pretty much enjoy the company of women and it is an all too rare experience in my professional life. I want women to feel welcome and relaxed in our field, not stressed out and on their guard.

Yesterday I went to a "team-building" event organized by my future employer. There were 2 women and 31 men... During this event I found myself in the middle of a match of masturbation and scatologic jokes. Those were fun when I was 15 but they feel now tired and old. This kind of stupidity tends to be inversely correlated to the proportion of women in the group... And it is only one of the many ways in which women can improve our community.

So yes, I want to "get more women in technology", not out of some stupid ideal but simply because I find it desirable. So I think it is important to encourage women and condemn the stupid jerks every time it is possible.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#114

Post by nobody314 »

bigB wrote: post #35
jimwise wrote: post #7

No disagreement with the basic, point, but was a bit surprised by this quote: "So, here's our situation. We have a man (presumably; at any rate he appears to want to be identified as such) in the Australian Linux community, who targets women by sending them private abusive emails from a throwaway address and with a name that can't readily be connected to any publicly known member of the community. His ISP won't hand…

I think from what I have followed of this, there have been some pretty lewd and targeted comments made, not only on blog comments but via direct email. While I dont know Bayley at all, from what I can gather she is highlighting the fact that people have to put up with such harassment due to the fact that ISP's or Police will not act on it. Being that the comments were made via direct email, I guess you could liken it…

Except if they phoned you - it would be a crime and the police would investigate.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#115

Post by pnathan »

maximusprime wrote: post #82
pnathan wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. No, we don't. I've been online for years , and men never get this particular kind of tripe thrown in their faces. It's a pretty unique kind of anger that comes out.

You've not been on IRC have you...

Since '98.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#116

Post by michaels0620 »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #78
michaels0620 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your public support for woman's rights is undermined by your implication that she is "stupid" for "falling for his shit". It's not like she got duped into giving her bank account information to a Nigerian Prince. She's become a target for bigotry. I also wouldn't call harassing emails, phoning people's work places, and changing an employer's online database as "nothing substantial".

I support equal rights. If a guy fell for troll bait, I say hes stupid for falling for it. If a woman does it, should I not treat her the same way? If I did, I myself would be undermining woman's rights. There is also insufficient proof such things happened. If they did, why has she not gone to the police and legally pursued it? I'm not seeing that she has done so at all.

I guess I am stuck on what it is you mean by "falling for troll bait". In my mind it means that you get sucked into an internet argument by someone who clearly just wants to cause trouble, not have discussion.

The fault for this guy's escalation to the point of calling people's place of business , etc.lies entirely with him. So I'd agree that you treating men and women equally, but I would argue that you would be equally wrong.

It is possible that things have never happened but there seems to be enough evidence amongst others. From her original post, it appears she has gone to the police but they did not do anything. There is a rather expansive area of behavior that is clearly intimidating and inappropriate that is not technically illegal.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#117

Post by Aloisius »

Can someone please tell me why quitting the tech community would stop someone from harassing you because you are a woman?

If anything, you'd think bringing it up to the community and get help tracking down the person would work better. That or public ridicule/shaming. Something proactive. I mean, isn't feminism about fighting back against these degenerates?

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#118

Post by floatboth »

maximusprime wrote: post #82
pnathan wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. No, we don't. I've been online for years , and men never get this particular kind of tripe thrown in their faces. It's a pretty unique kind of anger that comes out.

You've not been on IRC have you...

What IRC channels?

I never saw a troll on freenode, for example. Not a very frequent visitor, but still.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#119

Post by yummyfajitas »

andos wrote: post #105
uriel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to the Internet. As Paul Vixie pointed out ages ago: "The Internet is not for sissies." Trolls are almost as old as the net, and they are not going to disappear without something short of a big-brother state that makes the Great Firewall Of China look like kids play. So better get used to it. Also remember: "Liberty resides in the rights of that person whose views you find most odious." — John Stuart Mill [Di…

By the same reasoning, we could argue that thieves and murderers are almost as old as civilization and we should just get used to it. Sorry, but no. They will always exist, sure, but the only thing we should get used to is hunting them fiercely. I will not surrender my right to be happy, productive, and helpful because a minority of socially-dysfunctional people are trying hard to ruin it for me and for others. Nobod…

Would you be OK if people often called you an abuser of women?

MikeeUSA is not (as far as we know) an abuser of women. He is a person who sends unpleasant nonthreatening emails while peacefully sitting in his home.

Your attempt to conflate people who initiate violence and people who express unpleasant opinions is dishonest.

Further, you don't have any "right to be happy". No one does. You have the right to pursue happiness in a manner which doesn't involve violence against others, but you don't have the "right to be happy". If I have a "right to be happy", then you are violating my rights by not buying me some whisky and hookers.

Re: Female FOSS dev quits tech industry due to harassment

#120

Post by floatboth »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #119
andos wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same reasoning, we could argue that thieves and murderers are almost as old as civilization and we should just get used to it. Sorry, but no. They will always exist, sure, but the only thing we should get used to is hunting them fiercely. I will not surrender my right to be happy, productive, and helpful because a minority of socially-dysfunctional people are trying hard to ruin it for me and for others. Nobod…

Would you be OK if people often called you an abuser of women? MikeeUSA is not (as far as we know) an abuser of women. He is a person who sends unpleasant nonthreatening emails while peacefully sitting in his home. Your attempt to conflate people who initiate violence and people who express unpleasant opinions is dishonest. Further, you don't have any "right to be happy". No one does. You have the right to pursue hap…

Are you really sure they're not threatening?

Also, harassment goes far beyond trolling.

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