In a small Virginia town, citizens review police like Uber drivers

The statistics were well-framed and accurate. It also has a nice discussion about how the statistics can be spun in different political directions, which is uncommonly honest for any side.

> People who have already been instilled to vote against their self interest and who want to oppress others

This narrative of law enforcement oppressing others is probably something we would hopefully agree to disagree on regarding the particulars of who, and how wide-spread that is. It definitely happens. I would say that my first-hand experience mixing with something like a thousand inmates (the number is true) is that they were very ethnically diverse. About 1/3 White, 1/3 Black, 1/3 Hispanic. Roughly. More Black and Hispanic and less White I guess, but there were plenty of Whites. Virtually 0 Asian. However nearly everyone was very lower class.

More important is that everyone who I knew of ... deserved to be there. They were mostly burglars, robbers, car thieves (way more high-speed chases than you would expect). Many were there for some type of Assault. Many multi-charge cases. Plenty of murderers, and a lot more rapists than you would expect.

Very very few were there for only drugs, and honestly, they were released quickly into treatment programs. Other than that there were hard-drug dealers facing more major cases. They also tended to have a long case history involving the crimes above.

Mixed with their more serious crimes, drug abuse was rampant, both in their outside lives and inside the jail. The law in the jurisdiction (I won't name it for privacy) doesn't care about marijuana. It was mainly heroine and meth. Those were even inside the jail in small quantities, leading to fights and even an in-jail murder over its control.

However, nearly all of the drug addicts were eligible for reduced sentencing and "programs". In this jurisdiction they really bend over backwards for addicts. People would be in and out for serious violent cases and receive "programs" (outside treatment) and reduced sentences because they were mentally impaired from addiction. One guy in particular I knew, was a meth + heroine addict who had been in and out on "programs" for many years for all sorts of serious crimes, had lately killed a cop with his vehicle while fleeing.

The drug defense was such a great way for people to get off that many would help each other concoct their defenses about how they were under the influence for their crimes. Another guy in particular came up with "bath salts" defense for a violent crime while I was there, and he was in fact released for it, instead of facing pretty serious time. They were going to even let him even go to a different state to care-take his for his son. However, he was back in for another case within a month.

As for oppression, I understand that BLM has some valid complaints, for instance. And I certainly met a lot of cops who were nasty, violent, cruel people who didn't live up to the profession. It attracts some really bad people. I look at cops totally differently now. I would also say that parole and probation is very harsh and that people who have to endure it are "oppressed" in many ways, and often even financially exploited by law enforcement. These people have very little chance of crawling up out of the lower class after being in the system. Many end up on the streets. But their own addictions and criminal culture are a major factor.

My point was not so much about oppression, which certainly occurs, but that from my first-hand observation, the vast majority of the arrest population is genuinely guilty of what they were arrested for (and often also of a lot additional crime they weren't arrested for), and is quite a lot more criminal and dangerous to society than 90% of liberals assume (and I am a liberal). People who don't know any better often think of jails and prisons as teeming with "victims of the system". But trust me, the vast majority are real low-lifes. They are a serious danger to you, yours, and your stuff. They should absolutely be separated from the rest of society, for both punishment and public safety.

> Also, watching a tv show? That’s the worst way to understand politics.

I see you assumed that it's a drama or staged reality TV. No, it's closer to a serialized documentary. I am telling you as someone who has both spent 2 years in jail and seen this show ... that it is an accurate, gonzo-type view into what jail is.

It's not political. One could definitely use it to understand the politics of jail however, internal and external. It's a little sensationalized for TV consumption, but, it's also pretty close to what I could see being "source material"; It wouldn't surprise me if pieces of it are a supplemental part of any Criminology curricula.

I'm not trying to be rude here, but this is a situation where you don't know something (what jail is like inside, or anything about this "show"), and you are talking to someone with that knowledge. In other words, you would stand to learn something.

Now I doubt you're really interested, but since I'm typing, I'll say that the "show" is candid footage of the daily lives of real inmates. It also features several "plant" inmates who are not criminals, but who are fully immersed with real criminals. The real inmates are only partially aware of being recorded, and are usually not conscientious of it. It's a documentary of what jail is like, and shows the live population in a real jail; Who they are, how they talk, think, and act.

I'm surprised it was even legal, frankly. It is pretty exploitative, since in jail you are technically still innocent (not yet convicted). However, I can tell you from first-hand knowledge that again, the vast majority of the inmates are in fact guilty of the crime they are accused of, and something like 95% of them have been committing serious crimes their entire life. I sense you may possibly have a "political" disagreement with this statement (apologies if not), but I assure you it is true.

The show is actually amazing because jail is a very dangerous place where you can absolutely find yourself in violent, possibly even deadly situations. While the "plants" were monitored closely on CCTV, they are very certainly in physically danger. (It's worth mentioning that CCTV is common in most jails/prisons; it wasn't just for the show).

While personally in jail, I was involved in numerous fights, and witnessed countless others, two of which were particularly brutal and involved fractured skulls, also a few stabbings, several large group melees, and a suicide. A murder also happened in a pod I was in, though I wasn't anywhere near it. Jailers are also sometimes very violent and provocative. There were at least a few shivs around in any given pod. It sounds a bit extreme in retrospect, but I'm not exaggerating anything.

> While being the best way for basic propaganda to work on a person.

Who said anything about propaganda? There isn't really any active political angle to it (except perhaps the Sheriff's funding / election). It definitely shows the Draconian threat of "crime doesn't pay" by showing the inside of the admittedly quite ugly industry, but I don't personally think that's more propagandizing than simply educational in a net-positive sense for our particular society. It is a little sickening that a show like that is a form of entertainment for some people to watch. I can understand the fascination with it, but I personally didn't even watch a whole lot of it because it hits too close to home.

Also, please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that I am propagandized in some way, or lack the critical thinking to discern television propaganda. We're both in a high functioning career. Presumably we're both smart people, no?

> Life isn’t a joke where tv shows are what should be referenced.

Well, think about it ... I'm obviously speaking from a position of real life experience. There aren't many good "jokes" here. I'll try to sidestep the offense I could take at the term "joke" in response to someone mentioning a serious topic and "life" experience, but that's difficult.

Basically, you heard someone with some rare domain knowledge say "hey - check this thing out, it's actually pretty realistic". Even without actually looking at that thing, if you can't figure out that that person is probably correct about what they say ... I'd point out what that makes you, but this is HN and I don't intend to flame. You should figure it out though.

I don't think you'll even read any of this, typing it is just therapeutic I guess. But, since you bothered me, I'll tell you that I don't like your demeanor or arrogance.

Arguably it's petty, but for the sake of keeping HN a nice place I think I'll check your comments every now and then ... and if I see you calling folks names like "boot licker" again, or posting non-substantive stuff (which seems likely?) I'll happily flag it! Maybe the thought of dang would force you to become a better, or perhaps less frequent poster.

Your profile indicates a bright person, and I assume you are. Heads up - what you're saying isn't matching.

There's really no indication where that's coming from. I definitely said nothing inappropriate about race.

Two things are relevant there:

1) It's not an unwise assumption that your raising of the specter of "oppression" was along the lines of race, as that is so often the main context for that sort of discussion. See the BLM movement, and basically any other conversation about police oppression. I thought I was making it clear that I did not perceive much racial oppression in the proportion of races present; that the proportion instead suggested that socio-economic class and uncomplicated inherent criminality were the most important hallmarks of the arrest population. I really have no idea which direction or for what reason you could possibly be offended by anything relevant to race that I said. Trust me, I hate talking about race, but it seemed relevant, and everything I said was a just a real figure.

2) Race is extremely relevant on the inside. It's HUGE culture shock. I was lucky to be mainly housed in the "Non-Active" population, which means "not actively gang members". This is opposed to "General Population", where falling into a race-based gang is culturally mandatory (for all races). Basically everyone must participate in some level of gang activity and take orders from racial leadership. Resources (food, jobs, phones, televisions, chairs, area, etc.) are divvied up by racial "politics" (which is an oft-used word on the inside which has a slightly different, more ominous meaning than when you or I say it). There is some mixing, but you know where your race's areas are and you get into trouble fast if you infringe on other races' stuff; No watching their TV, sitting on their chairs, using their stuff unless you are invited. In my group we mixed a lot more, and overt gangs were actually taboo, but almost everyone was a former gang member from general population and/or outside. There were still very solid racial cliques and they still fought over racial ownership of certain resources. The gangs were beneath the surface and occasionally became active.

It's a fascinating topic really. Not all of the racial gangs are strictly exclusive, and there are more denominations than you would expect. I knew a white guy who ran with an Islamic black gang when he was in prison. (Coincidentally, he was an utterly vile person who will either rot behind bars or die young, which I can honestly say is for the best). Some hispanics run with white gangs and vice versa. Then there are those who claim "other". Any race can claim "other", meaning they largely stay out of racial politics as best they can but they still basically have to form a cohesive group and minimal leadership in order to maintain resources and not be taken advantage of.

Anyway, even though I largely avoided the problems of "general population", race and racism is a very serious thing among inmates. It flows in all directions and is super uncomfortable. Also, for the record I totally avoided any gang affiliation. I cliqued mainly with the hispanics and whites (the blacks mostly stuck to themselves) but I had some close black friends too. Plus you know ... "I voted for Obama" so there's that often-denigrated but still good-faith line. Dislike Biden though.

> the casting of an entire disenfranchised population in a negative light

Yeah I mean, we do disagree .... "casting in a negative light" is trivial and pretty essential to the whole idea that it is in fact justified to condemn someone to time behind bars for the very serious crimes they commit of their own free will, which I assert they definitely have. I really think if you spent meaningful time among the arrest population it would become really clear that the majority of them disenfranchise themselves with willful major crimes. Remember -- you rarely ever even see these people let alone mingle with them; I think you don't understand them because you haven't met them.

There are a lot of homeless + insane folks in the system though, and I feel differently about them.

Anyway. For some reason I needed to blab about jail stuff that I NEVER talk about with a rando who vehemently disagrees ... Thanks for reading. That's probably enough HN for me for a while.