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It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

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Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#701

Post by BlueTemplar »

friendlypeg wrote: post #526
BlueTemplar wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that "pay not to grind" games should not get negative attention ?

It should, but the negative attention this game is getting is not proportional to the degree of awfulness of the monetisation. I am just jaded by the misinformation and double standard the Internet have these days, when you see some content creators even proclaiming this game the greediest game ever made! [0] which is objectively not true. Will these creators dare to critize other mobile games like Genshin Impact and…

We might not listen to the same people then, Jim Sterling has been criticizing all this crap (including even gachas) for years... (though unless there are bigger news, this weeks' video will probably still be about DI ?)

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#702

Post by BlueTemplar »

Skunkleton wrote: post #575
BlueTemplar wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WoW is much worse than Diablo on that front...

Is it though? Diablo 100% grind after the story (which can be completed in a few sittings).

Yes, but the combat is the core gameplay loop, and it's fun - unlike in WoW having to suffer through one after another fetch quest and the "real game" only starting after you hit max level...

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#703

Post by GekkePrutser »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #702
Skunkleton wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it though? Diablo 100% grind after the story (which can be completed in a few sittings).

Yes, but the combat is the core gameplay loop, and it's fun - unlike in WoW having to suffer through one after another fetch quest and the "real game" only starting after you hit max level...

haha I stopped playing when I hit max level.

I'm not a team player when it comes to games and the whole raid thing just didn't work for me as such.

I guess I was using it wrong. To me it was just a fancy chatbox with some busywork though I did like some of the druid questlines.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#704

Post by kaibee »

jack_pp wrote: post #78
dtech wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We shouldn't restrict heroin, if you're prone to addiction you can get a candybar in any supermarket" These games are explicitly designed to prey on people prone to gambling-like addictions.

Not quite the same thing as heroin as you can easily drown your sorrows in any number of cheap video games and I'm of the belief that if you are prone to addictions the only way to evolve passed them is to go through them. I am against putting laws up against these games but I am for the community warning and talking about this so people know what they're getting into. I'm also for legalizing all drugs but that's ano…

> Not quite the same thing as heroin

If it was, do you think it would stop them?

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#705

Post by fomine3 »

wincy wrote: post #550
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I'm personally not a victim of loot boxes and exploitative P2W tactics because I just don't buy them. But I just want to pay some amount once and have a good game in my Android phone, without ads and without constantly nagging me to spend more! I'll pay $60 also if the game is good, I just don't want to be put into a Skinner box constantly trying to milk my "engagement" and my pockets. Is that so much to ask?…

It’s even worse on mobile as the app might forcefully update you to a new Free to Play version. I spent $8 on Galaxy On Fire 2 HD which was acquired by another company then suddenly dropped the price and added ads and in app purchases. Very frustrating.

This is really annoying. Possibly Apple Arcade blocks from this situation?

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#706

Post by phamilton »

Beldin wrote: post #696
qball wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I went to Dave & Busters, they didn't seem to have an entrance policy. People don't seem to have a problem with this even though a minority of their games are ultimately slot machines (the simplest of which is the "time the light" game, but the coin stackers count as this as well given that they're literally right out of real casinos). Interestingly, the fact that D&B lets you combine winnings with cash…

> if the tokens have "no value", But if you can exchange tokens for prizes, clearly the tokens do have value. 1 token = piece of bubble gum, 10 tokens = keychain, 5000 tokens = fluffy unicorn. Etc. Basically, I don't see why the fig leaf would work in the first place...

Somewhat related, I once had a job offer at an early startup and wanted to adjust the equity/salary ratio a bit. I asked "How much more equity could I get per $1k drop in salary?" The founder liked that framing but when he went to go get legal to approve they shut it down saying that putting a direct dollar amount on equity would throw a huge wrench into 409a valuations.

So while things have value, anchoring that value to a dollar amount is a different story.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#707

Post by fomine3 »

jack_pp wrote: post #41
throwuxiytayq wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy the "we have ways to play the game without spending lots of money" excuse these companies are constantly peddling. I refuse to accept this new default of "games" explicitly designed to abuse children and addicts.

Children don't have access to a credit card unless you give it to them. If in 2022 you're giving a kid a device where he can make payments without your input then you're responsible for it. If you're addicted to spending money online irresponsibly I doubt there is any law that will protect you, there's millions of ways to spend money to get gratification online.

Just buy Google Play card at store with cash.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#708

Post by fomine3 »

stevenjgarner wrote: post #519
mattnewton wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure I understand what you mean. The core mechanic is that rewards are randomly distributed - the namesake “gacha” machines dispense a capsule with a random toy. Think of it as a slot machine where if it hits you get an item you wanted / needed for gameplay and if it doesn’t it just took your money and gave you something useless.

Perhaps I need to play to understand, but it sounds like “gacha” machines behave like in-game vending machines where the player can purchase "features" to enhance their avatar etc.? Or do I have that wrong? I just assumed that those “gacha” machines are code libraries in gaming engines (Unity, Godot, GameMaker: Studio, etc), and that maybe a “gacha” machine code library is available open source or in some other fashi…

Gacha logic must be implemented at server side. It would be hacked very soon if it implemented at client.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#709

Post by fomine3 »

crazypyro wrote: post #524
sextus_prop wrote: post #453

This is a culmination of a trend that has been going on for at least a decade: First it was the lootboxes that became widespread: ~2010 Steam Team Fortress 2, later Counter Strike 2012 EA's Mass Effect 3 2014 Call of Duty and Battlefield 2016 Overwatch After that it seemed lootboxes were everywhere. In 2017 there was some backlash for EA's Star Wars game and they removed lootboxes, but it did not change the situation…

There is a large difference in lootboxes that have the ability to give you more power in the game versus lootboxes that just drop new cosmetic items with no gameplay affect. Some of those games that you mentioned only contained cosmetic items in the lootboxes. Gamers as a community have a much more visceral reaction to paying for power in the game, compared to paying for cosmetics.

Whether PvP or not is also a big difference. I'll never play PvP AND P2W game, it become money vs money.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#710

Post by therealdrag0 »

iepathos wrote: post #686
qball wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is 0 value to things that can be generated with in games like the 'loot' from lootboxes. But that's false, on its face in fact- there was development and artist time involved in every step of the process, and that time has a value (and an auditable one, at that). So now that we know what the value is, taking into account that the house can only pay out in those assets, we can in effect determine a maximum prof…

This is not accurate. Time and resources put into making a product does not guarantee or give it any inherent value. Value of products can absolutely be 0 even if millions are dropped into its creation if there is no demand or simply infinite supply. I don't think there is infinite supply here, just pointing out this argument about value based on development cost is not accurate.

There’s also network effects, companies slight provide some things as a loss leader to other things, so the cost of A doesn’t mean A is all the company needs to charge to remain in business if their model uses A’s profits to support B etc.
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