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I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

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Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#121

Post by abirch »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #113
joeman1000 wrote: post #104

Ok, so how are interviews fair at all then? How do they really tell anything about the person, other than the fact they are good at interviews? How is it fair that all the other people queued up to interview didn’t get a shot because they didn’t do as well in a 5 minute high pressure period? This 5 minutes probably determined the courses of their lives. What the fuck? Does anyone feel as flabbergasted about interview…

I also need "time and space to think" (and so would most people), but given the choice between someone who needs time and space to think, and someone who doesn't (either works well under extreme pressure or is just that self-confident), who would you choose? Sure interviews are unfair (there are many problems like the one described in TFA, as well as people who just practice the skill), but are there better options?

Contract to hire. My best jobs came this way, but I understand it's not for everyone.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#122

Post by imgabe »

napo wrote: post #13

I'm surprised that atm there is a consensus in the comments saying that it's not cheating. Companies ask interviewers to not reveal the questions they had to other candidates. It's likely that his friend was told not to say that. Overall he clearly had an unfair advantage, and even if legally it wouldn't be the definition of "cheating" it would go against the intent of the interview: which is to evaluate candidates i…

Companies can ask whatever they want. They will ask for two weeks notice but lay you off with no notice. Who gives a fuck what companies ask for?

Don’t pretend they are an authority. They’re a bunch of idiots making it up as they go along like the rest of us.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#123

Post by joeman1000 »

rapind wrote: post #120
joeman1000 wrote: post #104

Ok, so how are interviews fair at all then? How do they really tell anything about the person, other than the fact they are good at interviews? How is it fair that all the other people queued up to interview didn’t get a shot because they didn’t do as well in a 5 minute high pressure period? This 5 minutes probably determined the courses of their lives. What the fuck? Does anyone feel as flabbergasted about interview…

It’s fair in that the company also suffers from the wrong talent measurements. That they can get away with such a bad measurement though just shows that there’s a large gap between the costs per and profits per developer.

Yeah: they’re literally filtering incredibly talented but shy people and taking people who are good at bullshitting and potentially are talented. It’s really not fair for people who have a lot to offer, just not in a highly anxiety-inducing 5 minute time slot.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#124

Post by johnsanders »

abirch wrote: post #121
AshamedCaptain wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also need "time and space to think" (and so would most people), but given the choice between someone who needs time and space to think, and someone who doesn't (either works well under extreme pressure or is just that self-confident), who would you choose? Sure interviews are unfair (there are many problems like the one described in TFA, as well as people who just practice the skill), but are there better options?

Contract to hire. My best jobs came this way, but I understand it's not for everyone.

Yep. No way on earth I would have gotten the job I have if I'd been in the recruiting cattle call.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#125

Post by pc86 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #79

I wouldn't consider it cheating. It was either a stroke of luck, or MS wasn't really doing an especially good job of reviewing their tech questions. A big part of programming (in my book) is finding the way that works; using whatever path is required. If you peek through a hole in the curtain to do so, then that's fine. Knowing about the curtain, and the hole in it, is part of engineering. I remember taking a photogr…

I don't think you can consider two people, at least a year apart from each other, being asked the same question "not doing an especially good job of reviewing their tech question."

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#126

Post by DeathArrow »

What I take from this is that luck takes a big part of happy stories in life.

Nobody is infinitely lucky and nobody is infinitely unlucky. To be successful means most of the time to be prepared when the luck comes and be ready to take advantage of the opportunity.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#127

Post by joeman1000 »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #113
joeman1000 wrote: post #104

Ok, so how are interviews fair at all then? How do they really tell anything about the person, other than the fact they are good at interviews? How is it fair that all the other people queued up to interview didn’t get a shot because they didn’t do as well in a 5 minute high pressure period? This 5 minutes probably determined the courses of their lives. What the fuck? Does anyone feel as flabbergasted about interview…

I also need "time and space to think" (and so would most people), but given the choice between someone who needs time and space to think, and someone who doesn't (either works well under extreme pressure or is just that self-confident), who would you choose? Sure interviews are unfair (there are many problems like the one described in TFA, as well as people who just practice the skill), but are there better options?

I’d pick the person who can prove themselves capable in their own way. Their tyrannical measure of capability simply rubs a lot of people the wrong way. I should not be pushed aside because I’ve got anxiety issues stopping me from jumping through their fucking little hoop.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#128

Post by pc86 »

joeman1000 wrote: post #104

Ok, so how are interviews fair at all then? How do they really tell anything about the person, other than the fact they are good at interviews? How is it fair that all the other people queued up to interview didn’t get a shot because they didn’t do as well in a 5 minute high pressure period? This 5 minutes probably determined the courses of their lives. What the fuck? Does anyone feel as flabbergasted about interview…

This sentiment gets shared a lot, but what's a better alternative? Without ignoring the reality that you only have 15-20 minutes with each candidate, some of them will be brilliant, and at least a third or more won't be able to code their way out of a paper bag. Oh, and keep in mind false negatives have almost no downside but false positives hurt the recruiter financially, and hiring bad people is expensive.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#129

Post by pbhjpbhj »

sverhagen wrote: post #68
lynguist wrote: post #46

Why are all the other comments so negative and stuck up whether it constituted “cheating” or not? That wasn’t the point of this story. It was a beautifully well written account on luck and how sometimes the things align. The interviewee at the time was receptive towards the kind of questions that are asked at Microsoft and got the right one. Good luck. And then he passed a 6 hr on-site interview as well! No luck at a…

It made me think of how courses take test questions straight from the class materials. And let's say I'm a big procrastinator, and I run out of time, studying the night before the test, and I decide only to go through the odd pages of my materials, and also let's imagine that the test writer, just by accident, took most (or at least, enough) questions from those odd pages, did I now cheat? (I think not...)

You cheated yourself out of knowledge acquisition by treating a course of education as only a means to get a certificate.

That's cheating.

You're supposed to study the whole course, the examination is a statistical test to see if it's likely that you studied, and can apply, the whole course. If you didn't study the course, you're misrepresenting yourself by during the exam.

That's cheating (in a different way to the first one).

Examinations are imperfect, they usually can't cover an entire course without being too onerous.

In this circumstance you cheated, but did not break the rules for taking the exam. You will be less competent on the course material than is intended for those who pass.

Re: I cheated on my Microsoft interview (2019)

#130

Post by pc86 »

joeman1000 wrote: post #127
AshamedCaptain wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also need "time and space to think" (and so would most people), but given the choice between someone who needs time and space to think, and someone who doesn't (either works well under extreme pressure or is just that self-confident), who would you choose? Sure interviews are unfair (there are many problems like the one described in TFA, as well as people who just practice the skill), but are there better options?

I’d pick the person who can prove themselves capable in their own way . Their tyrannical measure of capability simply rubs a lot of people the wrong way. I should not be pushed aside because I’ve got anxiety issues stopping me from jumping through their fucking little hoop.

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