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Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers

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Re: Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers

#381

Post by darkteflon »

chowchowchow wrote: post #378
darkteflon wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only I had a dime for every time someone on HN unironically threw around the term “underlying value” like it meant something they could build an argument off.

You don’t believe in any concept of utility relating to value? You’d argue that a house has no underlying value due to location and comforts?

I think a house has “value” related to utility.

I also think the putative concept of “underlying value” - always defined in opposition to some other form of value the speaker is railing against - is a lazy rhetorical crutch that provides nothing of analytical value to a discussion.

Every time these crypto threads come along we have tens of people drawing this same distinction and hordes of software engineers nodding along in agreement like it’s actually a thing. It’s not a thing. At least, not the way it’s deployed here.

Usually I just ignore it but it’s beginning to pass into accepted wisdom through sheer repetition.

Re: Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers

#382

Post by chowchowchow »

darkteflon wrote: post #381
chowchowchow wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t believe in any concept of utility relating to value? You’d argue that a house has no underlying value due to location and comforts?

I think a house has “value” related to utility. I also think the putative concept of “underlying value” - always defined in opposition to some other form of value the speaker is railing against - is a lazy rhetorical crutch that provides nothing of analytical value to a discussion. Every time these crypto threads come along we have tens of people drawing this same distinction and hordes of software engineers nodding…

So to me it sounds like you do acknowledge the concept of underlying value. A house has utility, it is scarce, there is competition for it, ergo its value is a function of demand for the asset (aka a proxy for the utility of owning the asset). This can be extrapolated to other assets besides houses. Unclear if it can be to crypto, it’s sort of you believe or you don’t on that one. I think that’s what people mean when they say it has no underlying value.

TLDR scarcity + utility is where value comes from. Crypto really only has scarcity arguing for it. Much like collectibles actually.

Re: Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers

#383

Post by darkteflon »

chowchowchow wrote: post #382
darkteflon wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a house has “value” related to utility. I also think the putative concept of “underlying value” - always defined in opposition to some other form of value the speaker is railing against - is a lazy rhetorical crutch that provides nothing of analytical value to a discussion. Every time these crypto threads come along we have tens of people drawing this same distinction and hordes of software engineers nodding…

So to me it sounds like you do acknowledge the concept of underlying value. A house has utility, it is scarce, there is competition for it, ergo its value is a function of demand for the asset (aka a proxy for the utility of owning the asset). This can be extrapolated to other assets besides houses. Unclear if it can be to crypto, it’s sort of you believe or you don’t on that one. I think that’s what people mean when…

There’s just “value”. People use the term “underlying value” as a proxy for “real value”, in opposition to “not real value”. You can verify that by looking at any example of its use in this thread.

I’m saying it’s a rhetorical crutch that doesn’t lead to meaningful discussion or insight.

If people acknowledged in these threads that “value” is way more complex and nebulous than these facile comparisons make it out to be, we’d have more interesting discussion.

Re: Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers

#384

Post by chowchowchow »

darkteflon wrote: post #383
chowchowchow wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So to me it sounds like you do acknowledge the concept of underlying value. A house has utility, it is scarce, there is competition for it, ergo its value is a function of demand for the asset (aka a proxy for the utility of owning the asset). This can be extrapolated to other assets besides houses. Unclear if it can be to crypto, it’s sort of you believe or you don’t on that one. I think that’s what people mean when…

There’s just “value”. People use the term “underlying value” as a proxy for “real value”, in opposition to “not real value”. You can verify that by looking at any example of its use in this thread. I’m saying it’s a rhetorical crutch that doesn’t lead to meaningful discussion or insight. If people acknowledged in these threads that “value” is way more complex and nebulous than these facile comparisons make it out to…

I think it’s clear people are distinguishing value based purely on speculation in a scarce asset and value based on demand (and still maybe speculation) for some underlying good which has utility. Be that a house, a car, or stock of a SaaS business, a retail operation, whatever.

Re: Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers

#385

Post by mavelikara »

toddmorey wrote: post #17

"While we did not make this decision lightly..." Yes but you aren't doing it humanely, either. I've been through the dot com crash and several hard economic downturns. It really puts your company's humanity on full display. It's the real test. Preserving cash flow is important. But you also have to do things carefully, openly, and with genuine care for the people who've believed in your vision. People will respect th…

> It really puts your company's humanity on full display. It's the real test.

Which are the companies from the dot com crash you remember doing this very well, and very wrong?

Re: Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers

#386

Post by kodah »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #314
kodah wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part is that Coinbase's interviews are difficult. If I'd spent months studying, rejecting other (good faith) offers, and then had this happen I'd not only be in a bad spot (without a job entering a recession) but I'd be furious at the inequality of input and output. I've been interviewing for the past month and I made a rule that I won't be doing any algorithm interviews. I didn't have time to study; some f…

I went through the whole Coinbase interview process at the Staff level a few months back - I thought all their interviews were fair and represented what I would have been doing there as my job. There weren’t any LC questions and the algorithm questions were all based around doing crypto related things.

Same, mine was Staff level as well. I had to build a filesystem. I finished it, but I was left wondering if I was actually going to be working on an OS there.

Re: Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers

#387

Post by kodah »

aaronchall wrote: post #371
onion2k wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So let me get this straight: now, we're not allowed to ask people if they can perform an __essential function of the job__, without being labeled "inhumane"? I think there's a simple solution to the problem of algorithm testing and Leetcode problems in hiring: every company should run their hiring technical test on their current staff, at random, on a regular basis. If the current staff can pass then the test is a va…

So a company isn't allowed to raise the bar?

There's a healthy way to raise the bar and there's lots of unhealthy ones.

A healthy way would be bringing your current talent pool up to a higher level through training, even if that's maths (if that's what your current problem is).

An unhealthy way is introducing a bunch of new talent that is tested on one niche domain of software engineering and pretending everyone needs to do that while also trying to improve fundamental skills that help them with their day to day job.

Re: Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers

#388

Post by kodah »

1270018080 wrote: post #185
kodah wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part is that Coinbase's interviews are difficult. If I'd spent months studying, rejecting other (good faith) offers, and then had this happen I'd not only be in a bad spot (without a job entering a recession) but I'd be furious at the inequality of input and output. I've been interviewing for the past month and I made a rule that I won't be doing any algorithm interviews. I didn't have time to study; some f…

Are there ANY companies that pay well and don't do algorithm interviews?

Two of the companies were featured on HN, I think I'd probably out my account if I said their names.

Re: Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers

#389

Post by kodah »

jes wrote: post #194
kodah wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part is that Coinbase's interviews are difficult. If I'd spent months studying, rejecting other (good faith) offers, and then had this happen I'd not only be in a bad spot (without a job entering a recession) but I'd be furious at the inequality of input and output. I've been interviewing for the past month and I made a rule that I won't be doing any algorithm interviews. I didn't have time to study; some f…

> I'd be furious at the inequality of input and output Stranger here. Just want to suggest that getting furious over things outside of your control, or the world not being as you would like it to be, is optional. If you don't like being enraged, you can quit that pattern with some practice in learning to notice your emotions as they come and go, and then learning to interrupt the chain of events that leads to the sta…

I practice stoicism in my day to day life, or try to stick to it best I can. That said, stoicism only helps me with actions I choose to take, it doesn't override the fact that internally I would be furious. I'd end up channeling that furor into something healthy. I also think it's healthy to convey to other people how you feel, especially if you are someone practicing moderation with reactions.

Re: Coinbase is rescinding already-accepted job offers

#390

Post by kodah »

granshaw wrote: post #211
jlund-molfese wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you find the better-quality companies you apply to? Are you able to decline to answer algorithm questions when they're asked, and instead convince companies to accept code samples? There is https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards , but there aren't many larger companies on the list

Yeah avoiding LC interviews typically means missing out on most of the high paying companies, for some it’s worth it

For context, I will actually be making substantially more - at least one order of magnitude - wherever I land.
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