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What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

latimes.com

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Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#571
post #79
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

120amp to your stove? What in the world does the plug look like? I've never seen a plug that big, except with 3-phase.

NEMA doesn’t define a plug that big, so it would have to be hard-wired, and probably has a cutoff switch.

I'm almost sure that's the case. Source: The breaker is 30A x 4 ganged.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#572

A large reason electric (restive and induction) are seen as inferior to gas is that portable units are limited to 120v/15a (few are 20a) so the total possible power is technically less than a gas stove; 2800w effective. However, gas stoves are very inefficient so in reality it's not a huge problem and 240v electric stoves could even be hotter (~4000w) than a gas stove. > Xie estimates that he pays around $500 to $700…

Induction burners are extremely efficient (>80%) vs something like 40% for gas burners, so the induction would come ahead in your example (1400W vs 1100W). The cooktops you can buy here in Europe are limited to 3.7kW, and you can bridge two burners for up to 7.4kW. I rarely use one burner beyond ~70% power, anything above gets scorching hot (= burns everything) when using a good iron/steel pan. I heard the US has the…

I’m getting tired of people citing the efficiency of electric vs gas without including the any of the electric production and distribution. Sure at the point of use electric is more efficient but what do you think they make that electricity with? Most likely it’s coal, after that it’s natural gas. The best argument in favor isn’t dubious claims to efficiency or even indoor combustion but that it’s fungible. Once you put the electric infrastructure you can transition from one source to another more easily. As more renewables come online you can phase out fossil fuels. I’m a little suspicious of the motivations to go all electric and rip out gas infrastructure. Enron and the recent troubles with the Texas power grid don’t bode well.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly would be interested for an actual chef to weigh in. I'm all for using an induction stovetop at home, but have people actually seen chefs fry over an open flame? They're moving the pan around, lifting it up and around, using it to toss the food, etc. That would basically be impossible with an induction stovetop. It seems rather tone deaf to me to not address the issues that the chefs are actually concerned…

I don’t know about chefs but my mom always complains about how hard it is to cook with induction heating because it takes very long to switch between high and low temperatures. You can’t be as reactive with induction cooking (alternatively moving the pan off the direct heat and moving it back again might achieve this)

Inductive cooktops are quite reactive, the pan stops generating heat as soon as the electricity is cut off, and while the glass does get hot, it cools reasonably quickly, at least IME. Older style "convection" electric cookers were glacially slow in responding to heat changes, since there was a massive amount of heat stored in the heating element.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#574

A large reason electric (restive and induction) are seen as inferior to gas is that portable units are limited to 120v/15a (few are 20a) so the total possible power is technically less than a gas stove; 2800w effective. However, gas stoves are very inefficient so in reality it's not a huge problem and 240v electric stoves could even be hotter (~4000w) than a gas stove. > Xie estimates that he pays around $500 to $700…

Double the voltage and double (or triple) the current for the power consumption/output of an electric range. They are in the power neighborhood of an electric clothes-dryer not an electric hairdryer.

I definitely enjoy cooking with gas more, but a modern induction range will bring a full stock pot to a boil faster than the gas equivalent you find in homes.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The publication Reason isn't usually considered the most credible source. I'll just leave the claims as 'unfounded', which is fine.

Ah yes, when the news disagrees with your worldview attack the source. The article is well-researched with plenty of links, but your response is expected.

You can say that, but Reason is still not generally seen as credible. If we ignore credibility, we can say and on the Interet we can find support for anything.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, when the news disagrees with your worldview attack the source. The article is well-researched with plenty of links, but your response is expected.

You can say that, but Reason is still not generally seen as credible. If we ignore credibility, we can say and on the Interet we can find support for anything.

Who says it’s not credible? Why is it any less credible than NYT or WSJ, which each has its own ideological slant?

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#577
post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Induction burners are extremely efficient (>80%) vs something like 40% for gas burners, so the induction would come ahead in your example (1400W vs 1100W). The cooktops you can buy here in Europe are limited to 3.7kW, and you can bridge two burners for up to 7.4kW. I rarely use one burner beyond ~70% power, anything above gets scorching hot (= burns everything) when using a good iron/steel pan. I heard the US has the…

I’m getting tired of people citing the efficiency of electric vs gas without including the any of the electric production and distribution. Sure at the point of use electric is more efficient but what do you think they make that electricity with? Most likely it’s coal, after that it’s natural gas. The best argument in favor isn’t dubious claims to efficiency or even indoor combustion but that it’s fungible. Once you…

In California it's mostly renewable with a small amount of natural gas and nuclear. Occasionally over 90% renewable depending on the time of year.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#578
post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a chef, but I cook nearly every meal, whether home or at my SO's. A gas stove is a world of difference compared to cooking with an electric one. One major pain point is that the number settings on electric barely provide insight as to what level of heat you're cooking with, and there seems to be a lack of consistency between one electric stove to another. Whereas with gas, you can just eye the flames and know wha…

It’s not gas vs electric. It’s gas vs induction vs everything else. An induction cooktop is more powerful than any residential gas range, and responds instantly when you change temperature. The only two problems I’ve encountered are a) the heat stops instantly if you pick up the pan and b) you don’t get heat up the sides of a wok or other curved pan. I’ll never go back to gas, and that’s not even considering the heal…

Third problem on cheap induction cookers: the power control via +/- keys is too coarse in the low region. E.g. for cooking buckwheat, 600W is too much (the water boils too intensively, especially near the end), while 400W is not really enough, and there is nothing in between. Fortunately, 12 minutes @ 600W + 8 minutes @ 400W yield an acceptable result.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European restaurants (in any EU country, even Germany) absolutely do use gas, and it's fairly common. Depending on the restaurant, i'd go as far as to say "all" of them use it. At least the ones worth mentioning. Heating up hotdogs can probably done one something other than gas. Fewer natgas stover in Germany, more in Italy. Netherlands has like 92% of households hooked up to natural gas. Restaurants are mostly gas o…

> At least the ones worth mentioning Of the top of my head can name a fair amount of 2/3 star restaurants that are all electric. BTW, Germany is among the MOST addicted to gas in the EU, despite their greenwashing. Generally the nations with the most nuclear energy are the lost likely to choose electric > gas.

the famous french restaurants are cooking on electric, really?

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chef here: I've used induction, but the biggest annoyance is heat loss when lifting a pan. Most pans section dishes are moved quite rapidly, lifting then off of the burner, to toss the ingredients(I could be cooking 5-6 dishes at once, so speed is very important), with a gas burner this doesn't matter as the radiant heat is there. Now I'm assuming there are radiant stovetops that are designed for hospitality, but I'v…

I wouldn't be surprised if the market is unready to provide something professionals are happy with, and that could be a disaster - but if it's mandated throughout the state, the demand will exist for a supplier to try to do better. I can say that for my own home cooking purposes, electric coils have always been acceptable, and that's really where my attention is with the ban - I already know I won't feel direct pain…

I would imagine the vendors of propane & propane accessories would be licking their chops at the prospect of going into all these restaurants.
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