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Richard Stallman’s rider

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Re: Richard Stallman’s rider

#231

Post by pwaring »

glaurent wrote: post #224
bad_user wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman has an uncanny ability to predict the future in regards to our industry. Everything he predicted has happened already or it will. Trusted computing? It is here, it is popular and because of Apple it is also considered cool. It doesn't matter that the device you paid for is not your property anymore, people love shiny. Also, trusted computing got rejected by the market when Microsoft tried it, but now Microso…

> Basically OS X destroyed Linux's chances on dominating the future desktop. Yeah, because the constant feuds within the Linux community, the failure to settle on a common desktop platform, the crowd of "I-want-to-write-yet-another-irc-client" devs, and the utter lack of appreciation for end-user needs all have nothing to do with it. What Stallman in particular and the Linux community in general fails to understand i…

"community development simply doesn't scale"

I think that depends on what you apply it to. Community development seems to work well enough for individual projects, but not in-between projects (see amount of duplication caused by LibreOffice/OpenOffice.org).

Re: Richard Stallman’s rider

#232

Post by bad_user »

gaius wrote: post #219
bad_user wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he has to control how everyone else uses it One of the goals of free software is to allow you to use it for any reason whatsoever, and I don't know if you realize what this actually means, or maybe you are to young, but once upon a time you couldn't use Visual Basic to create a Microsoft Office competitor. If by usage you mean the copy-left behavior of GPL, I think it's only fair for a software author to demand whate…

once upon a time you couldn't use Visual Basic to create a Microsoft Office competitor I don't know if you know much about VB, but doing that would almost literally be a case of creating an app with a rich text control in the middle. It would be like changing a few keywords and calling Python your own language.

     a case of creating an app with a rich text 
     control in the middle
The ActiveX / OLE controls available in Windows by default are nothing short of useless.

To have a Word-like processor in the middle of your window, you have to have Office installed ... I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that you can create a competitor that way, where a "competitor" would be a piece of software that actually replaces Office, not just augments it.

Re: Richard Stallman’s rider

#233

Post by Artagra »

I had the opportunity to see Richard Stallman speak, to participate in a Q&A session afterwards, and to ask him a few specific questions. I think he's a great man, whose acting with a huge amount of conviction and commitment to what he believes in - I have huge respect for this.

I also think he's a bit crazy, but then so am I! I feel he could make a bigger impact for his cause if he was more moderated and accessible in his views, but I respect his views none the less.

I think a detailed rider like this is generally a good thing, as it allows people to prepare more effectively. And from talking to the people who organised the event I attended, I think he's actually much more chilled out and reasonable than some of the things in the rider make him seem.

Re: Richard Stallman’s rider

#234

Post by vidarh »

muyuu wrote: post #151
mef wrote: post #31

"I do NOT use browsers, I use the SSH protocol. If the network requires a proxy for SSH, I probably can't use it at all." I wondered if this applied to all net usage or just email, turns out he never uses a web browser, ever. If he needs the contents of a web page, he emails a daemon which wgets the page and emails it back to him: http://lwn.net/Articles/262570/

This takes me back. In the early/mid 90s, particularly in Universities, internet was slow as molasses and many of us used these mail interfaces, for web and also for FTP (FTPmail). In many places email was given most of the bandwidth and it was a lot faster like that. Big files would come Uuencoded in several parts. In Uni, usually pics of Cindy Crawford and Erika Eleniak among others. Now it seems incredibly geeky b…

My first web usage was via message exchange with a local BBS which did UUCP e-mail exchanges every 4 hours. I e-mailed my request to an e-mail web gateway at CERN, and got my page back in the next exchange.

Thankfully that only lasted a year before I got proper access.

And yes, I remember FTPmail, as well as similar gateways for Gopher, Veronica, Archie, WAIS... I feel old now.

Re: Richard Stallman’s rider

#235

Post by jsavimbi »

brider wrote: post #137
jsavimbi wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only after I find a trustworthy wi-fi connection that'll allow proxy-less SSH.

This entire comments thread has a higher than expected level of subtle/downplayed humor. I appreciate subtle humor, but I don't know if Hacker News is the place for it.

That's odd. I found no references to either subtle or downplayed humor in the rider.

You sir, are really subtle with your humor.

Re: Richard Stallman’s rider

#236

Post by demallien »

bad_user wrote: post #229
demallien wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's only fair for a software author to demand whatever the fuck he wants from the software he wrote Like, a fee of $50, for example? I would say that your position is diammetrically opposed to Stallman's stated goal. But it's not your fault, the GPL is also in opposition to Stallman's stated goals. He went from having the high ideal that software should always be open, to trying to force other people to thin…

Like, a fee of $50, for example? Well yes, since you mentioned it, I think that's the author's right. Having the opinion that all software should be free, that doesn't mean I want to force people into doing it, as that is indeed in opposition with the idea of freedom. through the threat of legal actions What threats? The only threats I'm seeing from FSF are in response to GPL-violations. If a software author chose GP…

Well yes, since you mentioned it, I think that's the author's right.

That's nice, but seeing as you seem to be defending the GPL, how I'm I supposed to collect my $50, if the next dev down the road packages up my code as an application, and makes it available free, with source code and what not. In the real world, I can no longer get paid for my software in such a circumstance. Or how about you produce a module, I see the module, recognise that I could make it substantially better, but with a non-legligeable investment of time. I would like to be compensated for making the software better, or I'm simply not going to bother. I, as a developer, do not have the right to develop a module of software that uses a GPLed module of software, and then sell it as closed source (to stop someone else from packaging up my work and distributing it for free).

The GPL is rather good at giving freedom to end users, provided that the end-user is a competent programmer. The GPL is lousy at giving freedom to programmers that want to add value to GPLed software, which in the long term ends up costing non-technical end-users access to better software.

What threats? What do you think the GPL is? It's a threat to use legal remedies if you don't play by the rules of the GPL. Without that implicit threat, we could just ignore the GPL as a rather boring piece of irrelevant text.

Re: Richard Stallman’s rider

#237

Post by maximusprime »

jrockway wrote: post #210
maximusprime wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a text editor.

Yes. I edit text for a living.

Anyone can write a text editor though. It's fairly simple.

It's beyond bizarre to compare the creation of a massive company, thousands of jobs, numerous earth shattering products which enhance the lives of millions, with a text editor a few programmers use.

IMHO Stallman has been a net negative on the computer industry, and will not be remembered fondly outside the emacs niche userbase.

Re: Richard Stallman’s rider

#238

Post by ordinary »

demallien wrote: post #227
bad_user wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he has to control how everyone else uses it One of the goals of free software is to allow you to use it for any reason whatsoever, and I don't know if you realize what this actually means, or maybe you are to young, but once upon a time you couldn't use Visual Basic to create a Microsoft Office competitor. If by usage you mean the copy-left behavior of GPL, I think it's only fair for a software author to demand whate…

I think it's only fair for a software author to demand whatever the fuck he wants from the software he wrote Like, a fee of $50, for example? I would say that your position is diammetrically opposed to Stallman's stated goal. But it's not your fault, the GPL is also in opposition to Stallman's stated goals. He went from having the high ideal that software should always be open, to trying to force other people to thin…

Like, a fee of $50, for example? I would say that your position is diammetrically opposed to Stallman's stated goal.

This is incorrect. I quote:

"Free software" is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of "free" as in "free speech," not as in "free beer."[0]

[0] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

Re: Richard Stallman’s rider

#239

Post by maximusprime »

officemonkey wrote: post #222
maximusprime wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't compare the two. Steve Jobs created a massive company. Thousands of jobs. He created products we all love and use. Stallman just goes around ranting mad rants at people.

Comparing the two is a bit like comparing Thomas Paine to Thomas Edison. Stallman created a movement. A movement that largely predicted the ways technology and society interact. I think in 100 years people will still using the GPL. I can't say that about the iPod.

BS. Free software existed well before Stallman.

Re: Richard Stallman’s rider

#240

Post by gjm11 »

glaurent wrote: post #220
jrockway wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this come up in RMS threads again and again. "There are ways to make things change. But you have to adapt." Why should he? He's famous and you're not. Why should he take advice from you that's clearly not working? Also, he did change the system from the inside. This is why people deal with his quirks.

> he did change the system from the inside Yeah, no, not really. Linus did, by precisely following that advice : compromise and be practical. Yes, he couldn't have done it without rms's previous work, but without Linux, Free Software would have been all but forgotten by now. I'd also argue that one of the reasons why Linux is still at around 1% of the desktop market is similar : blindly following principles at the ex…

Without Linux, maybe Free Software would now be forgotten. Without RMS, maybe nothing like Linux would ever have existed.

Both RMS and Linus changed the world; I'd argue they've both changed it considerably for the better.

Why does it have to be just one or the other?

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